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John Townsley Posts: 2
19/04/2020
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Perfectly correct - it is an injustice, but it has been to the House of Lords, European Court of Justice, and I think Court of Appeal - all to no avail (I too was a member of AFPG). What are the changes of getting it to the Supreme Court do you think ? I don't think it existed at the time of the original AFPG fight.
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Geoff Cheers Posts: 7
19/04/2020
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I have recently received a response to a letter that I sent to Mr. J. Mercer MP, on this very issue, and basically it just contained the usual platitudinous response that I had expected.
It did not address a single question that I had posed, nor did it explain why issues, relating to various military circumstances, had been addressed 'retrospectively', but military pensions had not been similarly treated.
To clarify my point;
The rules with regard to personnel being discharged, dishonourably, from the Armed Forces for reasons of pregnancy and ‘differing gender preference’, have been changed retrospectively, and sums of money have been paid to folk in such circumstances, but it seems that as far as pensions go, the word ‘retrospective’ is not in the Government, or the MoDs, vocabulary.
In similar vein, another issue that niggles somewhat, is Graduated Pensions. As service personnel we contributed to this element of our State Pension, and receive a small element of that contribution in our State Pension today. A friend of mine, who is the same age as I am, receives nearly £10 pounds a week more than I, due to the fact that, as a civilian, he earned more than I did during the years in which we contributed to Graduated Pensions. Our pay, until the onset of the Military Salary,
(by which time Graduated Pension contribution had been terminated) was quite minimal due to the “All-Found” circumstance in which we operated.
That is to say, our pay was less than a civilian’s pay, in similar employment, because food, clothing and lodging was factored in, but no element of this was factored into our Graduated Pension contribution. In effect this means that I am penalised in my state pension for having been an airframe fitter in the RAF, rather than having been employed as a civilian in a similar role at, say, Manchester airport. Just another issue that few people seem to have considered, but which really annoys me; as do all the people who say to me; “14 years in the RAF? I’ll bet you have a great pension”!
As our American cousins would say, "It sucks".
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John Evans Posts: 54
20/04/2020
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[deleted]
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John Cole Posts: 7
08/05/2020
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Take a look here, a group on the same theme https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=160753185256425&ref=br_rs we have a petition with 26,744 signatures. Have the same problem with Mr Mercer a no go after promising to help, pulled in by someone but who???
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Douglas John Curno Posts: 1
08/05/2020
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If the Government holds out long enough we will have all died off.
I doubt there was any chance of a reasonable explanation as to why pensions were not paid.
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tommy humphries Posts: 5
08/05/2020
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If you thought that much about the services, why didn't you stay in and do your 22 yrs , then the pension would be automatic.
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Robert Erett Posts: 2
10/05/2020
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That’s a bit over simplistic, isn’t it? People change jobs for many reasons, none of which has anything to do with this issue
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John Evans Posts: 54
12/05/2020
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I tried to sign on for the 22 years, but not enough Gelt in the Goverment Coffers to pay me a pension if I had done the full 22. I put it down to being a War Baby !!
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Ashley Crisp ( Crispy ) Posts: 8
19/06/2020
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Joined RN aged 15 on 10th July 1962, discharged 8th January 1974 and not a penny entitlement I'm told. Joined AFPG and tried many times for pension rights and failed, money in fighting funds was given to charity and group folded . What next if anything can be done to get justice?
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Blue Belle Posts: 19
19/06/2020
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Please whingers, stop griping and take your medecine. As stated by the intelligent on here, if at the time, you didn't sign on for 22 years and/or complete 22 years, you were never eligible for a pension for military service. Please try and understand, if you were not offered a pension related to the term of service i.e. 22 years then you were never entitled to a Forces pension when you ceased serving or at any time thereafter. Those were the 'terms and conditions' then, in those times to 'encourage' recruits to enter for the long term, terms and conditions which may well have been changed over the decades for these 'modern' and woke times. Better to try and fill up the forum with positive useful stuff, don't you think?
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Ashley Crisp ( Crispy ) Posts: 8
21/06/2020
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Tripolitania District Belle … I and many others don't regard ourselves as you put it "Whingers"). Most joined at the tender age of 15, no we didn't sign on for 22 at the time , did you ? So show some compassion although I think you might lack that attribute. We all served for our country, willing to fight for it , so why should we not, irrespective of length of service, reap rewards the same as others who left one year later ?
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Blue Belle Posts: 19
21/06/2020
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Dear Crispi. I rest my case, thank you for your comments.
But now I'll add more to illustrate how right I am about how misplaced your demands are.
My great grandfather joined at 14, AOC Armourer to 4th Rifle Brigade India, Burma etc. for 22 adult years.... medals and juicy juicy pension ....bought all of Colchester's little tobacconists up, bought the town's Wholesale tobacco and confectioners warehouse business...... all on his 22 years of adult service BIG FAT pension....yes, available way back in the 1800s.
His son, my grand father, joined at 14 as an AOC/RAOC/then REME armourer, serving with the Machine Gun Corps in WW1. Served all over the world and in WW2 and after. Medals galore. 22 years adult service in the regulars, another 20 in the TA. BIG FAT pension indeed.
His son, my father, joined at 14, RAOC/REME as a gun fitter, serving in WW2, then Palestine, Cyprus then as Artificer Vehicles in further flung places (BAOR, Malta, Libya- Tripolitania District 2RTR REME). Medals galore. 22 years adult service and BIG Fat pension too. Used it to buy a country ple in deepest darkest dankest Wales, Friog, Merioneth. Are you seeing a trend yet? The importance of the 22 year engagement? Let's continue.
My twin brother joined REME as an apprentice at 15, same age as yourself; on offer was 3 years adult service....no pension. Or, 6 years adult service, no pension. Or 9 years adult service, no pension. Or, 22 years and BIG FAT pension. Guess what OFFER he chose? Medals too, not just for 'serving' either.
Then there's me. I joined the Army before my 17.5 birthday and I chose a long-term career in the Army, ducking in and out to have children and serving more years than I care to mention..... got two medals and guess what? A nice BIG FAT pension.
So please, do consider what choices were presented to you on enlistment and the 'career/just a job' decisions that you made before and during your time in uniform. You are responsible for those decisions you made, not the Government. Had the Government made an error with your collective's pension awards/non pension awards then I'm sure you'd have a valid case worthy of addressing.
Ah, now I'll get back to writing the history of the great regiments and units that served in Tripolitania District .....where I lived as a little girl when my father ran the REME LAD attached to 2RTR. Homs, Libya 1959-62.
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Ashley Crisp ( Crispy ) Posts: 8
22/06/2020
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Tripolitania District Belle. Thanks for the polite and concise reply . I really do get your point and appreciate you and your families contributions to the armed services.
I cant recall which might be due to my very young age and cavalier attitude at that time of being offered 22 years .Even if it did happen which is very likely, I wouldn't have accepted. So thanks again for putting the matter straight ,seen through different eyes and circumstances. I'm one of the lucky ones , comfortable monetary wise and if I hadn't had left the RN ,my successful life in civvy street and meeting my wife would never had happened. Have a good life , and thanks for the enlightenment.
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Blue Belle Posts: 19
25/06/2020
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You're welcome Crispy but let me thank you too, please. Glad you're comfortable and happy .... as you deserve to be.
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Peter Mills Posts: 165
23/07/2020
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what ever you may think,if you served queen and country,national service or regular service,you put your life on the line,you could have been posted anywhere in the world to do your duty,army,navy,airforce,you still did your bit,so why should you not be entitled to a pension,no matter in what period you served, be it after 1945 to the present, we are all the same,service personal,so what ever you think, IF YOU SERVED,YOU DESERVED.
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Christopher David D' Van-Hilton Posts: 10
30/08/2020
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I served my country, but my country fogot me
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Kenneth Anthony Posts: 3
30/08/2020
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VIC ANTHONY> RAF 57-70.12+ Yrs, Dingy UK sites, sweaty Jungle, dusty deserts and scorching islands. 24/365 on-call or grafting. Too many pension decisions made by un-civil servants, an elitist officer class plus all past governments 'laisez-faire' attitude. WE ARE STILL MINIONS so don't expect any sympathy from officialdom. Pensions in this country are a joke. I,M 80 and have just had my pension increased! A WHOLE 25p per week!( £13 quid a year) New tax bracket so I get a new (lower) tax No. Miltary pension? GO WHISTLE
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james alexander smith Posts: 1
21/10/2020
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James Smith (sandy) Navy Jan 1957 - April 1971 14 years no pension awarded . It would help now that I am asked to pay a Tv licence once again after paying it for 55 years . Whats the chances of a rethink ??
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Roy Smith Posts: 1
20/12/2020
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Like many of us enlisting in our teens, any thoughts on pension rights were far from important. Just a shame that consequences were never put over more strongly. Or even the opportunity to be able to pay into a pension fund. How amazing that would have helped me/us in retirement years. I currently pay £2 monthly into a group called CAFF(UK) to help fund legal action against government for compensation.
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John Evans Posts: 54
22/12/2020
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Hi Smudge. Like you I joined as a 17 year old, not thinking too much about pension, It has come back very hard financially as pensioner. I tried to do 22 years but told NO. Joined A.F.P.G. and on advice from sherrie blair we went to the top at the Hague, same result. What is CAFF(UK) you mention? Will try anything to get compo for time spent in uniform. Even Johnny Mercer now an MP does not seem interested in our case, typical of all parties of MP's. Line their own pockets, and forget the minions
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