Did You Know.....?
20 June 1942, at the White Hart Lane Stadium, London,
Freddie Mills defeated Len Harvey for the British & Commonwealth Light Heavyweight Championship.
Both were serving in the RAF at the time.
Did the return match give a new meaning to "Forces Reunited?
Freddie Mills defeated Len Harvey for the British & Commonwealth Light Heavyweight Championship.
Both were serving in the RAF at the time.
Did the return match give a new meaning to "Forces Reunited?
Originally Posted by John Richards
Hi John, When i was on my fitter's course at RAF Weeton, ( Blackpool) in 1964, we were in the gym getting the usual beasting from the PTI's when one of them shouted to a chap who was knocking lumps out of a punch bag to come over and show us erks how it was done. It was Brian London. His Dad, Jack London beat Freddie Mills in 1944 to win the British Title. Brian himself had some good wins but when faced by the top heavyweights, fell short of the mark. He suffered at the hands of Muhammed Ali, Floyd Patterson and our own Henry Cooper. By todays standards, i think that he would be quite a small heavyweight as he was only 6ft tall and weighed about 14 stone 9 lbs. Having said that, he looked menacing next to us lot.
Kind Regards
Roy
Originally Posted by Roy Sloan
In 1952 i was working in a City centre Sports shop in Leeds and we heard that Randolph Turpin the Light Heavyweight Champion was visiting Leeds to open a new . Store Neville Reeds. By the time i got off of the Bus at 9 am. the Town wa already packed with people and by the time he arrived on an open topped bus it was pandemonium. I was lucky enough to get a good look at him as the crowd swaying around his transport held him up nearly opposite our shop. He had defeated the great Sugar Ray Robinson after going into the Contest as a real outsider.Sadly some years later he committed suicide
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While i was stationed at Gaydon i used a hotel bar in Warwick called the Lord Leycester and Randolf Turpin also frequented it so i saw him in there regularly. My wife was at school with i think one of his cousins Jackie Turpin i believe he also boxed but later turned to wrestling.
We've been reminiscing about the 'old days' when boxing was at it's prime. It's not the same these days.
I can remember late one night, my Dad and some of his mates glued to the radio for a Joe Louis fight, when there was a knock at the front door.
It was a policeman, who asked if he could come in and listen.
I can remember late one night, my Dad and some of his mates glued to the radio for a Joe Louis fight, when there was a knock at the front door.
It was a policeman, who asked if he could come in and listen.
I was at Catterick when Bruce Woodcock knocked out Freddie Mills for the British title and me and a couple of mates sneaked back into the Naafi to listen to it. When we got back to our hut I went into my awkward squad mode and insisted on switching on the lights long after lights out. The hut was way out beyond the others so I thought we'd be safe. Sod's Law obtained and in came a sergeant ready to book whoever was responsible. Before he could say anything I shouted down to him 'Hey, it was a cracking fight wasn't it Sarge?' He looked baffled so I explained who was in it, the result and how he'd missed a cracker if he hadn't heard it and all the while getting ready and getting into bed. Before he could do anything else I asked him politely if he'd mind turning out the lights as he went out to save me walking all the way down the hut and back in the dark. It worked and off he went while we were all laughing like billy-ho as all he said was that we really shouldn't have had the lights on at that time.
I come from a boxing family - my Dad was a pro as was my big brother and a couple of uncles on my Dad's side. I boxed amateur for a few years and my brother's manager was after me for ages to turn pro also but fate and a lovely blonde lady got in the way. Still married to her so that has lasted a lot longer than a career in boxing would have done.
I can remember sitting with my Dad sometime in the 1930s listening to the fight between Benny Lynch and Jackie Paterson for the World flyweight championship. The commentator kept referring to Paterson's southpaw style baffling Lynch and I pestered my Dad what was it about until he said 'Just shut up until it's over and I'll tell you,' After the fight which Paterson won he explained the stance and said southpaws were a bloody nuisance to fight because they were so awkward. I found that I could fight as well left handed as right handed not knowing at the time that I was ambidextrous - playground scraps and street fights were common on the council estate where we lived. It did baffle a lot and I found I could beat a lot of lads who otherwise would have beaten me because of their size. So, when I took it up later in my early teens I used to switch from one to the other to the despair of anyone who was acting as coach or second. I never bothered about their words - they were not in the ring - and if it made it better for me then that was good enough for me.
I can remember sitting with my Dad sometime in the 1930s listening to the fight between Benny Lynch and Jackie Paterson for the World flyweight championship. The commentator kept referring to Paterson's southpaw style baffling Lynch and I pestered my Dad what was it about until he said 'Just shut up until it's over and I'll tell you,' After the fight which Paterson won he explained the stance and said southpaws were a bloody nuisance to fight because they were so awkward. I found that I could fight as well left handed as right handed not knowing at the time that I was ambidextrous - playground scraps and street fights were common on the council estate where we lived. It did baffle a lot and I found I could beat a lot of lads who otherwise would have beaten me because of their size. So, when I took it up later in my early teens I used to switch from one to the other to the despair of anyone who was acting as coach or second. I never bothered about their words - they were not in the ring - and if it made it better for me then that was good enough for me.
Poor old Freddie Mills was often overmatched and used a few times as a trial horse being put in with top class American heavyweight fighters who would batter him but then get a further fight against Bruce Woodcock who was not top class as a heavyweight. A good honest journeyman that's all and he too suffered at the hands of the Yanks. Freddie did make it eventually to World Champion in his second fight against Gus Lesnevich at light-heavyweight if memory serves me well. In the first he was knocked down in one round about five times for in those days there was no three-knockdown rule, no standing eight count and boxers were allowed to stand over an opponent and start again as soon as their knees were off the canvas. Referees were less inclined to intervene and it's a wonder Freddie ended up able to tie his shoelaces.
You can probably guess boxing is a subject I've followed ever since I was a kid.
You can probably guess boxing is a subject I've followed ever since I was a kid.
Originally Posted by John Daly
WE WERE IN bLACKPOOL ON HOLIDAY ,WE WENT TO THIS PLACE FOR SOMETHING TO EAT , AND MY DAD SAID TO ME LOOK WHO IS AT THE TABLE BEHIND US AND IT WAS THE TURPIN BOYS RANDY JACKIE AND ONE OTHER. RANDY WAS THERE TRAINING IN THE CATSKILL CAMP FOR THE SUGAR RAY FIGHT .I HAD SEEN THE BOYS FIGHTING IN THE FAIR GROUND BOXING BOOTHS BEFORE THEY BECAME FAMOUSE,
FREDDIE WAS FOUND DEAD IN HIS CAR FROM A SHOT GUN . IT WAS SAID BUT BUT MAY NOT BE TRUE, THAT HE SHOULD HAVE THROWN A FIGHT. WHO CAN TELL WHAT HAPPENED/
He was long retired when that happened and had been getting small parts in films. The weapon was actually a .22 rifle and oddly was found leaning against the dashboard while Freddie was slumped in the opposite corner in the back seat. It was during the days when many of the old Flying Squad were on the take from gangsters and I think his death was not properly investigated. His prints were not on the gun, his position etc all stank of a fix but it was registered as a suicide. Freddie was something of a gambler and it was rumoured that he had a lot of debts from that.
Randolph Turpin's older brother was called Dick and held a Lonsdale belt being the first black boxer to do so. When Randy became the obvious challenger for the British middleweight title Dick, the title holder, retired so as to not hold Randy back and it would probably not have been sanctioned anyway by the BBBC. Jackie, youngest of the three, fought at featherweight and was a fair fighter but I can't recall him winning a title although of course he may well have done.
Boxers by and large are not known for their high I.Q. but surely the most stupid was the Yorkshire ex. scaffolder Richard Dunne Boxer, he had amassed various European titles, mainly from slugging overweight Italians and No hearted frenchmen plus a small fortune. about that time Mohammed Ali was touring the World giving a fight to anyone who could put up the money. Previously Joe Bugner had gone the full Distance with him on two occasions and when Richard Dunn's camp came up with money. Ali's management said O.K. Dunne managed to last five one sided rounds before the fight was stopped, Joe Bugner expressed his disgust at this poor display.
Dunne was furious and demanded a immediate fight,
Instead of making this bout a non titles fight he put his European, his Commonwealth and his British titles on the line. Joe Bugner knocked him out in the first round. So the Belts medals, Trophy's etc. he could have displayed in any public place around his home town were gone. It left Bugner with all this he had retired from and really could have done without.
Dunne was furious and demanded a immediate fight,
Instead of making this bout a non titles fight he put his European, his Commonwealth and his British titles on the line. Joe Bugner knocked him out in the first round. So the Belts medals, Trophy's etc. he could have displayed in any public place around his home town were gone. It left Bugner with all this he had retired from and really could have done without.
I remember both fights very well - Dunne was actually a very good boxer but had a chin like tissue paper - not even a glass jaw - any decent hard punching welterweight could have flattened him let alone a heavyweight.
Joe Bugner was an enigma. Henry Cooper once while on TV described him as a man with the body of a Greek God but a heart the size of a pea. Bugner took Ali the full distance as you say JD in two fights. The first a fifteen rounder and the second over twelve rounds. Bugner came out of both unmarked and Ali looked knackered. In fact after the second one Ali was taken to hospital with exhaustion. Bugner? He went to a disco and danced until dawn. He would not put himself out but if he had done he could have beaten Ali easily. He wasted his talent, boxed like a dream, took a punch as well as anyone and could sling them as well. I believe the reason was simple. From memory he got stopped in his first fight and in his second fought a black guy called Ulric Regis who was taken to hospital right after the fight where he died after taking a hammering from Bugner. After that he never threw a punch as hard as he could do except against Dunne which wasn't necessary.
I like the rest of England thought our 'enery was wonderful and never really was fond of Joe Bugner but in fairness Terry when they met Bugner was given the decision though many did not agree it was a fact.
To Joe's credit he is the only Boxer in History to ever go the full distance with with Joe Frazier and Mohammed Ali but also fought Jimmy Ellis , Brian London, Charlie Shavers etc. Yes he was a defensive fighter and maybe lacked the killer instinct but he fought and beat some Boxer from down Trinidad way who died shortly after and there were People who said he was never the same again.
To Joe's credit he is the only Boxer in History to ever go the full distance with with Joe Frazier and Mohammed Ali but also fought Jimmy Ellis , Brian London, Charlie Shavers etc. Yes he was a defensive fighter and maybe lacked the killer instinct but he fought and beat some Boxer from down Trinidad way who died shortly after and there were People who said he was never the same again.
Adding to that John the Bugner/Frazier fight was as fierce as any I have ever seen and Bugner, for once, stood toe to toe with Frazier and lost a very narrow points decision which many thought could have gone his way. Frazier was a very hard puncher but Joe matched him that night. I always thought a draw would have been fairer.
Originally Posted by Terry Carey
Hi Terry,A small aside about Joe Bugner. I used to work in the Huntingdon St Ives area .Joe Bugner had a huge house close to RAF Wyton. Another couple of celebs from the area,Oliver Cromwell was born in Huntingdon and of course a certain John Major was the incumbent MP. I didnt know any of them personally.
Regards
Roy
Originally Posted by Roy Sloan
Hi Roy, I live in St.Ives and met Jo Bugner a couple of times. I knew his ex wife Sharron very well. She was Lady Captain at my local golf club when I was Men's Captain. I agree with most of the comments above. Jo was a very defensive boxer. He had all the skills but seemed to lack an aggressive nature. He only seemed to 'Let Loose' when hit hard by an opponent. He could have been a lot better. As an aside , I used to listen to all the fights on radio during the Heyday of British boxing: Bruce Woodcock (He ran a pub in my home village when he retired). Brian London, Freddie Mills, Joe Erskine (Glass jaw but brilliant boxer) and another welsh boxer whose name I can't remember, He lost a world title fight to Rock Marciano who hit him while he was on one knee. No doubt someone will remind me of his name. Ah - the good old days.
Maybe you are thinking of Don Cockell who though not Welsh did fight Rocky, ( not sure that it was a World title fight ).
Rocky's only connection with having a fight in Wales was when during W.W. 2. he was a G.I. and in the Adephi Bar in Swansea and a Huge Australian Soldier tried to pick a fight with him as he only holding a glass of Milk. Rocky knocked him out with a single punch.
Rocky's only connection with having a fight in Wales was when during W.W. 2. he was a G.I. and in the Adephi Bar in Swansea and a Huge Australian Soldier tried to pick a fight with him as he only holding a glass of Milk. Rocky knocked him out with a single punch.
Originally Posted by Bill
Hi Bill, if you'd been born a bit earlier, you might have met the greatest ever British boxer, Bob Fitzsimmons, who came from Helston.
It's nice to know that there's a bit of interest in the subject of boxing. As I said Joe Bugner was clearly affected by Ulric Regis dying after their fight and I can well understand that. He carried on spasmodically for years after his best days but simply for money I think - his performances were not as they had been and he fought Joe Frazier's son Marvin but in my opinion disgraced himself. He hardly bothered to throw a punch and lost very clearly (I think) on points. He ended up in Australia fighting as Aussie Joe having taken up citizenship there and claimed a made up version of the world heavyweight title against an Aussie who had only had about a dozen fights.
Don Cockell was a blown up light-heavy who had fought Randolph Turpin when he moved up to that weight but he had an awful lot of trouble with his weight. He just went heavier and heavier and when he met old Rocky he had lost a lot of weight in a short time so was a bit weakened I suppose. He was a good boxer but lacked the punch for that category. When I heard Marciano talk after the fight he praised Don but I was amazed at his voice. He sounded almost like a choir girl - very weak and high pitched - quite at odds with his ring persona. Rocky was noted for a punch he called his 'Suzie Q' which usually ended fights. When I watched I knew why - it was a very short right hook to the jaw but he followed through with his elbow and got away with it in the States where they are not so particular.
Don Cockell was a blown up light-heavy who had fought Randolph Turpin when he moved up to that weight but he had an awful lot of trouble with his weight. He just went heavier and heavier and when he met old Rocky he had lost a lot of weight in a short time so was a bit weakened I suppose. He was a good boxer but lacked the punch for that category. When I heard Marciano talk after the fight he praised Don but I was amazed at his voice. He sounded almost like a choir girl - very weak and high pitched - quite at odds with his ring persona. Rocky was noted for a punch he called his 'Suzie Q' which usually ended fights. When I watched I knew why - it was a very short right hook to the jaw but he followed through with his elbow and got away with it in the States where they are not so particular.
Originally Posted by Roy Sloan
Hi Roy,Even I am not old enough to have met Oliver Cromwell!
Regards,
Terry.
Originally Posted by Terry Carey
I agree with you about Marciano and his 'Elbow' punch. That's probably the reason he never fought outside of the USA. That being said. he was one of the most fearless and durable boxers I've ever watched in the Heavyweight division. On a 'Lighter' note, two of the most exciting boxers to watch was Dave Charnley and Dai Dower. Both really quick and skillful but with with Glass Chins.
We have a top class boxer living next door!
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I never thought Charnley showed signs of a glass jaw. He had a fair number of wars from what I remember. I saw him at The King's Hall, Belle Vue, Manchester fighting a black guy called L.C.Morgan. I was in perfect position to see Charnley KO Morgan with a belter of a left cross - just to remind people he was a left hander - Morgan was out before he hit the deck. I think it was either the fourth or fifth round. One of the best kayos I've ever seen.
Charnley went fifteen rounds a couple of times so he must have been durable. Dai Dower was a lovely boxer but couldn't punch his way out of a paper bag!
PS. Wasn't Charnley a blacksmith?
Charnley went fifteen rounds a couple of times so he must have been durable. Dai Dower was a lovely boxer but couldn't punch his way out of a paper bag!
PS. Wasn't Charnley a blacksmith?
It is great to see all those Names of those Great Boxers
One Name that has come to mind and that is Billy Walker affectionately Nick Named the Blond Bomber
I believe He turned Pro about 1961 to 1967 when He lost to Henry Cooper
Cheers
One Name that has come to mind and that is Billy Walker affectionately Nick Named the Blond Bomber
I believe He turned Pro about 1961 to 1967 when He lost to Henry Cooper
Cheers
Originally Posted by Terry Carey
Must admit it was a bit of 'Poetic Licence' when talking about Charnley. Let's say he had a porcelain jaw as opposed to Dower's glass jaw. It was Charnley's boxing skill that saved him on many occasion but he wasn't able to take a well delivered punch as far as I can recall although I think he climbed up from the canvass more times than he stayed down!!!!
It's odd how many really hard punchers can't take a good shot themselves. Also, and here I am not being racist in the least but lots of black guys seem to go walkabout in their minds when they get a clout on the whiskers. They often recover in seconds but for those few moments they are very vulnerable - Bruno was a classic example - another example of a quote from Our 'enery - 'Yeah Bruno is a big strong boy but 'e 'asn't the sense to go dahn when 'e's 'urt.' Only too true - Our 'enery would drop to one knee to get a rest for a few seconds and that saved him many times.
There was one British Boxer who was ambidextrous, he could get Knocked out with either a Left hand or a Right hand .
There was one Boxer who was taking a terrific beating, as he staggered to his corner and asked his Trainer " How am I doing" His Trainer replied "Let him hit you with his Left hand for a while, your face is getting crooked "
There was one Boxer who was taking a terrific beating, as he staggered to his corner and asked his Trainer " How am I doing" His Trainer replied "Let him hit you with his Left hand for a while, your face is getting crooked "
Some ask why a young talented boxer like Cassius Clay would fight a 36 year old Slugger like Brian London but as Angelo Dundee, his trainer said later, "Cassius needed some Alimony in a hurry". The bout at Earls Court lasted less than 3 rounds and though Brian got quite an amount of cash out of it when he was asked If he would consider a Rematch the Blackpuddlian replied "Not Bloody likely"
Anyone wishing to see this fight can do so on Youtube plus there are a whole lot of other live fights as well, all free.
Anyone wishing to see this fight can do so on Youtube plus there are a whole lot of other live fights as well, all free.
Got me there John - At first I thought Hammering Hank aka Homicide Hank - aka Henry Armstrong but I think he did lose one or two fights. He was a phenomenon since he was only a featherweight but won three world titles in quick succession whhich led to a change in the rules to stop anyone else doing the same. I think he won the featherweight, then the lightweight, missed the welterweight division and won the world middleweight title all within three months or something like that. Anyway he was a hell of a fighter and became a preacher later.
Originally Posted by Terry Carey
No Terry, I should say that it was a bit of a trick question and the answer was on another page but all will be revealed very shortly.
Okay JD so while I am waiting who was the only World Heavyweight Champion who never won a world title fight although he had several goes at it?
O.K. Terry,
The answer to " The only American Fighter who nearly always fought above his weight and Never lost a fight all of which were in the U.S.A. was "Popeye" who always beat "Bluto "
I apologise for not providing the answer sooner but I did send Rear Admiral John Richards R.N. an E.mail requesting he post a picture of Popeye on but guess he did not see it.
As i am not an expert on Boxing i do not have a clue concerning the last question,
As i mentioned before there are some great Boxing Films / Clips on Youtube. which i guess most of us have never seen.
I watched one today where Freddie Mills fought Gus Lesnevich in London, a real battle. there are lots like them
The answer to " The only American Fighter who nearly always fought above his weight and Never lost a fight all of which were in the U.S.A. was "Popeye" who always beat "Bluto "
I apologise for not providing the answer sooner but I did send Rear Admiral John Richards R.N. an E.mail requesting he post a picture of Popeye on but guess he did not see it.
As i am not an expert on Boxing i do not have a clue concerning the last question,
As i mentioned before there are some great Boxing Films / Clips on Youtube. which i guess most of us have never seen.
I watched one today where Freddie Mills fought Gus Lesnevich in London, a real battle. there are lots like them
Damn! I'd forgotten that old gag John. I plead insanity but the only ex World Heavyweight champ who never won a title was Ken Norton who fought as challenger twice and lost both times. Once was against Ali and the judges were the only ones who thought Ali had won. Ali was already getting out of the ring when he was called back for the verdict. One of the governing bodies ended up with a vacant title so they appointed Ken as the Champ but he lost it on his first outing. Seems it wasn't to be and poor old Ken ended up like many other boxers unable to tie his shoelaces as the saying goes. Of course that kind of thing gets very difficult when you can't even remember your name or who you fought.
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