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Back to the bad old 30's

{{forumThread.upVotes}} Created by John (Scouse) Hirons 27 April 2012 17:27 9201 views Link  
John (Scouse) Hirons 27 April 2012 17:27
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Originally Posted by
Back to the bad old 30s

The shadow of the great depression of the 30s has returned to the UK. Its now estimated that more than 13 million families are living below the poverty line & that number is expected to increase over the next 2 years. Things have got to the state that in 2011 charities opened food banks throughout the UK & now provide free food parcels containing 3 days rations for 128,687 families in the UK that cant afford to feed themselves, the largest increase is amongst the low paid & those who have been made redundant. Its now common for parents to go without food so they can feed their children. This is happening in one of the worlds richest countries. How can a Government that can afford the give the richest in the land an extra 5p in the pound stand back & claim were all in it together.
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Terry Carey 27 April 2012 19:47
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Originally Posted by
Back to the bad old 30s

I blame the Government - erm, the one that was in for thirteen years - you know the one!!!! The one which left office leaving a note saying Theres no money left. and by heck, they were right. TC.
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John (Scouse) Hirons 27 April 2012 20:41
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Terry Carey I blame the Government - erm, the one that was in for thirteen years - you know the one!!!! The one which left office leaving a note saying 'There's no money left.' and by heck, they were right. TC. Alright Terry, When the Tories took over in 2010 they inherited the lowest inflation rate in Europe & the US, they inherited the lowest unemployment rate in Europe & they also inherited the lowest national debt in Europe (if you dont believe me check it out, I have) whats happened since then? Dont forget Osborne himself admitted this in 2011 to the (televised) Treasury Select Committee he also admitted that in two years Germany would over take us, he got that wrong as well they did it in one year. It would seem that to the Tories the operation was successful but the patient died is a fair result.
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Mike Pass 27 April 2012 23:15
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Originally Posted by
Hhhmmm!!!!

Both of the major parties are populated by 100% gross incompetents. Labour is the party of theft and the Tories are the party of sleaze. The rest are simple zeroes! The only current difference between the Reds and Blues is that the latter is going hell for leather to stuff the country faster than the Reds could ever achieve. To assume that either is/was better than the other is incredibly naive. I am only grateful that I was never taken in by either of them from childhood onwards!
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Ally Bell 28 April 2012 12:02
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Originally Posted by
same old,same old......
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Mo 28 April 2012 15:21
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Originally Posted by
history

[QUOTE]Quoting: John (scouse) Hirons[/B] [I]The shadow of the great depression of the 30's has returned to the UK. It's now estimated that more than 13 million families are living below the poverty line & that number is expected to increase over the next 2 years. Things have got to the state that in 2011 charities opened food banks throughout the UK & now provide free food parcels containing 3 days rations for 128,687 families in the UK that can't afford to feed themselves, the largest increase is amongst the low paid & those who have been made redundant. It's now common for parents to go without food so they can feed their children. This is happening in one of the worlds richest countries. How can a Government that can afford the give the richest in the land an extra 5p in the pound stand back & claim we're all in it together. [/I][/QUOTE]Well Scouse here i am born in 1933 into poverty at atime when a certain mister Hitler came to power , at when being hungry was a norm, when there wwere more people who couldnt afford to feed them selves in proportion to a smaller population than we have now , as i said there wre times when we were short of food but it was also a time of sharing what we had with neighbours ,without any further ado Scouse can you tell me what is classed as poverty today , against poverty when i was born, dont forget i have seen both, and i know the difference.:blink: :blink:
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John (Scouse) Hirons 28 April 2012 19:29
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: maurice robinson[/B] Quoting: John (scouse) Hirons[/B] The shadow of the great depression of the 30's has returned to the UK. It's now estimated that more than 13 million families are living below the poverty line & that number is expected to increase over the next 2 years. Things have got to the state that in 2011 charities opened food banks throughout the UK & now provide free food parcels containing 3 days rations for 128,687 families in the UK that can't afford to feed themselves, the largest increase is amongst the low paid & those who have been made redundant. It's now common for parents to go without food so they can feed their children. This is happening in one of the worlds richest countries. How can a Government that can afford the give the richest in the land an extra 5p in the pound stand back & claim we're all in it together. Well Scouse here i am born in 1933 into poverty at atime when a certain mister Hitler came to power , at when being hungry was a norm, when there wwere more people who couldnt afford to feed them selves in proportion to a smaller population than we have now , as i said there wre times when we were short of food but it was also a time of sharing what we had with neighbours  ,without any further ado Scouse can you tell me what is classed as poverty today , against poverty when i was born, dont forget i have seen both,  and i know the difference. [/QUOTE] Alright Maurice, Hardship wasnt restricted to the 1930, I remember back in 1966 I fell out of work & I had to apply for DHSS aid. They sent a lady round to my home who walked into our flat & promptly told us to sell our record player & as their was only two adults & we had a bed settee we must sell our easy chair & until we did this we would not get Government help. A short while later after buying food for the babies we have none for ourselves in fact on one day the only food we had in the house was one slice of bread & a tin of peas which we shared as our only meal of the day. So we all know what its like to go without, if you want to make a political point over it that was under a Labour Government. The difference is we arent living in the 30s or the 60s things have improved year on year as the country grew richer, that is until now when once again the poor are carrying the rich mans cross & having to go to charities to feed themselves. Let me ask you three questions; Do you think its right that in one of the worlds richest countries that people, through no fault of their own, should have to get charitable food handouts to feed their families? Do you think its right when people are being forced into poverty by deliberate government policy that the richest in the land should be given, by the same Government, an extra 5p in the pound? Do you honestly believe that "were all in it together"?
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Nobby 28 April 2012 20:39
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Originally Posted by
We lived in a hole in the road...

Four well-dressed men sitting together at a vacation resort. Michael Palin: Ahh.. Very passable, this, very passable. Graham Chapman: Nothing like a good glass of Chateau de Chassilier wine, ay Gessiah? Terry Gilliam: Youre right there Obediah. Eric Idle: Whod a thought thirty years ago wed all be sittin here drinking Chateau de Chassilier wine? MP: Aye. In them days, wed a been glad to have the price of a cup o tea. GC: A cup COLD tea. EI: Without milk or sugar. TG: OR tea! MP: In a filthy, cracked cup. EI: We never used to have a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper. GC: The best WE could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth. TG: But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor. MP: Aye. BECAUSE we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, "Money doesnt buy you happiness." EI: E was right. I was happier then and I had NOTHIN. We used to live in this tiiiny old house, with greaaaaat big holes in the roof. GC: House? You were lucky to have a HOUSE! We used to live in one room, all hundred and twenty-six of us, no furniture. Half the floor was missing; we were all huddled together in one corner for fear of FALLING! TG: You were lucky to have a ROOM! *We* used to have to live in a corridor! MP: Ohhhh we used to DREAM of livin in a corridor! Woulda been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woken up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House!? Hmph. EI: Well when I say "house" it was only a hole in the ground covered by a piece of tarpolin, but it was a house to US. GC: We were evicted from *our* hole in the ground; we had to go and live in a lake! TG: You were lucky to have a LAKE! There were a hundred and sixty of us living in a small shoebox in the middle of the road. MP: Cardboard box? TG: Aye. MP: You were lucky. We lived for three months in a brown paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six oclock in the morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out. When we got home, out Dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt! GC: Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three oclock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY! TG: Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at twelve oclock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, our Dad would slice us in two with a bread knife. EI: Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten oclock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, (pause for laughter), eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah." MP: But you try and tell the young people today that... and they wont believe ya. ALL: Nope, nope..
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Jacky Kelly 28 April 2012 23:15
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Originally Posted by
Alright Maurice, Hardship wasn't restricted to the 1930, I remember back in 1966 I fell out of work & I had to apply for DHSS aid. They sent a lady 'round to my home who walked into our flat & promptly told us to sell our record player & as their was only two adults & we had a bed settee we must sell our easy chair & until we did this we would not get Government help. A short while later after buying food for the babies we have none for ourselves in fact on one day the only food we had in the house was one slice of bread & a tin of peas which we shared as our only meal of the day. So we all know what it's like to go without, if you want to make a political point over it that was under a Labour Government. The difference is we aren't living in the 30's or the 60's things have improved year on year as the country grew richer, that is until now when once again the poor are carrying the rich mans cross & having to go to charities to feed themselves. Let me ask you three questions; Do you think it's right that in one of the worlds richest countries that people, through no fault of their own, should have to get charitable food handouts to feed their families? Do you think it's right when people are being forced into poverty by deliberate government policy that the richest in the land should be given, by the same Government, an extra 5p in the pound? Scouse. I Am One Hundred Percent With Your Post I Was Born In The Gallowgate Glasgow In The Year 1939 April I Kid You Not I( Still Remember Going Down The Salvation Army Bomb Shelter . And My Mother Buying Trip (I Have Never Taken That Crap Again) And Sour Milk.? It Was Frigging Hard Growing Up In That Time. But I Learned Early That The Boys Brigade Dont Pay You A Freaking Wage. At That Age I Vowed To Make My Mark . The Only F..ing Thing Was I Picked The Plantation Dock Where My Wife Lived. Think About It. A Young Hairy Ar-est Boy . Coming From A Middle Class Family Dropped Into A F...Inge Vice Den In Every Way.; Guest How Long It Took Me To Be The "Man" ? Three Month . I Had Every Thing Swed Up . (That Was Beenying A Fucking War Baby Made Me.
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John (Scouse) Hirons 29 April 2012 00:19
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Colin Hall Four well-dressed men sitting together at a vacation resort. Michael Palin: Ahh.. Very passable, this, very passable. Graham Chapman: Nothing like a good glass of Chateau de Chassilier wine, ay Gessiah? Terry Gilliam: You're right there Obediah. Eric Idle: Who'd a thought thirty years ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Chateau de Chassilier wine? MP: Aye. In them days, we'd a' been glad to have the price of a cup o' tea. GC: A cup ' COLD tea. EI: Without milk or sugar. ect ect Alright Colin, Yes the four Yorkshire men is a funny sketch. Unfortunately the little story I related was sadly true & not a piece of make believe, it & a few other things did two things first it started me looking at society & secondly its one of the reasons I joined up, for nine years employment if I hadnt I would most certainly have turned to crime to feed my family. There are thousands living in Liverpool during the sixties, seventies & eighties that will have similar tales & that explains why Liverpool is predominantly left wing. As they like to say in Yankee films "You dont know, you werent there." We as a society have supposed to have advanced since the bad old days yet here in one of the worlds richest countries where people, deliberately made poor by Government policy, are being fed by latter-day versions of the soup kitchen. The Government have stolen their jobs & cut the pay of those lucky enough to have one, they have cut the money the unemployed & pensioners have to live on, yet they have given the richest ten percent of the population a tax cut of five pence in the pound & then have the audacity to shout "were all in it together", that sirrah is hypocrisy of the worse kind. I ask you the same questions I asked Maurice Do you think it's right that in one of the worlds richest countries that people, through no fault of their own, should have to get charitable food handouts to feed their families? Do you think it's right when people are being forced into poverty by deliberate government policy that the richest in the land should be given, by the same Government, an extra 5p in the pound? Do you honestly believe that "we're all in it together"? Ill add another question; If this was a Labour Government doing all this would you be so flippant? Take a lesson from history in time like these the people turn to extremes, The BNP & their little brothers UKIP & the Communist style parties share of the vote is going up, how long do you think before we have a Fuhrer Nick Griffin or a Comrade Robert Griffiths running the country.
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Nobby 29 April 2012 00:28
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: John (scouse) Hirons If this was a Labour Government doing all this would you be so flippant? Yep! cos I dont really care one way or the other, and you shouldnt confuse me with some who does!
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John (Scouse) Hirons 29 April 2012 00:35
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Colin Hall Yep! cos I don't really care one way or the other, and you shouldn't confuse me with some who does! Alright Colin, In that case why did you post on this thread at all? Or did you mistake this for a joke thread? If youve got nothing to say, dont say it. Mind you it did give me a reason to further expose the current Governments hypocrisy, so thanks for that.
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Nobby 29 April 2012 00:40
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Originally Posted by
Because I can guarantee to wind you up...and this time I never even mentioned the trigger word "Labour" Did I mistake it for a joke thread? Well...sort of..I mean...well...its same old same old isnt it? Last edited by Colin Hall
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John (Scouse) Hirons 29 April 2012 04:05
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Colin Hall Because I can guarantee to wind you up...and this time I never even mentioned the trigger word "Labour"   Did I mistake it for a joke thread? Well...sort of..I mean...well...it's same old same old isn't it? Last edited by Colin Hall Alright Colin, Ahh I see, the old smoke & mirrors bit, an attempt to hide the painful truth by diverting attention. Im afraid you failed in the wind up but you did give me the opportunity to post more about the disgusting situation our current Government is subjecting the country to, so like I said "Thanks for that".
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Mike Pass 29 April 2012 08:35
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Originally Posted by
Hhhhmmm!!!!!

Quoting: Colin Hall Because I can guarantee to wind you up...and this time I never even mentioned the trigger word "Labour"   Did I mistake it for a joke thread? Well...sort of..I mean...well...it's same old same old isn't it? Last edited by Colin Hall Colin, perhaps you have, in the past, overlooked your UK based, true blue colleagues reactions to any condemnation of their partys actions; by Scouse or anyone else for that matter! The reason as to why we were forbidden from arguing about politics and religion during our service time was a more than simple one............the two subjects cause entrenchment in ones mind from a very early age; as does cissy ball. True argument can only proceed when both sides or parties are capable of deference during the process and decline to sit in intransigence. This is the very core of the failure of political argument on FR. There are few Labour supporters and a host of Tory ones. Few of them are capable of reasoned debate on the subject. Simply gainsaying and mudslinging proves nothing. BOTH the Reds and the Blues have been shafting this country for at least 50 years, either by incompetence or design. I will say one thing in Scouses defence this time, however. It is that I agree with his question as to why you choose to rubbish the thread. Had this been misplaced on General (not unlike many crossovers here!) I could understand it but it is correctly lodged and should be discussed as such. Maurice, bad news my friend. Poverty exists throughout time and as Jock has pointed out, there are other examples of this unpleasant and often unnecessary situation. It is (in this country)generally caused by poor administration. Administration of the type that we have suffered for many years. The party in power is irrelevant. What is relevant is the obvious lack of skills held by these tree swingers and troglodytes when it comes to the running of the country. I for one do not need billions to be spent supporting other supposedly civilised countries nor frightening sums thrown to the winds in the name of overseas aid. Not when it is money that I and other hard working, genuine inhabitants of this land have had removed in order to progress our own countrys affairs. All this simply, to look benevolent in the eyes of a world which, in truth, sees us as the boil on the backside of the world. We are impressing no one.
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Sit Vis Nobiscum. 29 April 2012 09:45
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Originally Posted by
We are not back to the bad old thirtys not by a long shot, I would think that many of us had parents who lived through that era and told us what it was like and there is still documented evidence of what those times were like. That said, the last three governments we have endured and are enduring, are so full of bungling incompetents that they may drag us back to that position; the rot started with John Major, and was followed by the incompetent Blair/Brown duo who almost bankrupted the country, only to be followed by Cameron/Osbourne not only trying to, but succeeding in destroying what is left of our domestic industries whilst giving what is left to countries who in some cases are rich enough to buy our steel and motor industries, and then to cap it off infrastructure project contracts being given to foreign companies in the name of competitive tendering. Why should we worry?
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Bomber 29 April 2012 09:53
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Originally Posted by
I was born in 1927 and remember the early 30s very well every one in our neighbourhood were the same we had nothing worth selling. My cousin and I used to go up to Cally woods to catch rabbits and my Aunt would go up to Marsh and Baxters in Brierley Hill for six pennorth of pigs tails and make a very good stew. We used to go up the Brettels and pick the cinders from the brick ovens and use them for the fire, we had a house brick in the oven during winter which was wrapped in a cloth and taken to bed with us and in the dead of winter the ice was on the inside of the windows, you had to be tough in those days. no wonder they say that the kids of today dont know they are born.
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..... 29 April 2012 10:51
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Originally Posted by
I was born in the 30s and though i dont remember much i do know my family had nothing as most working class families were in the same boat. Into the 40s and then Wartime and rationing, still nothing. When the 50 s came folks were finding it easier, jobs plentiful and the free National health service made things much easier. Then the 60s. everybody had jobs, we were able to afford cars and holidays ect. So to compare the 30s to the 60s is just ridiculous. Just think back to how you were living in the WordCup winning year. "One slice of bread and a tin of peas to feed a family" no wonder Colin took the P..s Scouse. I was made redundant (Sacked) in 1966 , i had a one year old child and another two weks old so was a bit shocked to say the least. There was some unemployment benefit available but i went carpet fitting, self employed and apart from one year as a Postman i stayed independant until my retirement when i was just over 70. 1960s. Rock and Roll, Beatles, plenty of jobs, new suits. cars , a very good time to live. Probably the first decade that the working man was not starving since the 1900s. Ps. In the 60s i visited the Pool on numerous occasions to see and stay with ex. service chinas and from what i saw they working class there were on a par with people from my area. they certainly were not on the Breadline.
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..... 29 April 2012 10:56
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Originally Posted by
Perhaps this thread would be a place for members to relate how they found things in the 60s Not political but just their circumstances at this time.
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Nobby 29 April 2012 10:56
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Mike Pass Colin, perhaps you have, in the past, overlooked your UK based, true blue colleagues' reactions to any condemnation of their party's actions; by Scouse or anyone else for that matter! The reason as to why we were 'forbidden' from arguing about politics and religion during our service time was a more than simple one............the two subjects cause entrenchment in one's mind from a very early age; as does cissy ball. True argument can only proceed when both sides or parties are capable of deference during the process and decline to sit in intransigence. This is the very core of the failure of political argument on FR. There are few Labour supporters and a host of Tory ones. Few of them are capable of reasoned debate on the subject. Simply gainsaying and mudslinging proves nothing. BOTH the Reds and the Blues have been shafting this country for at least 50 years, either by incompetence or design. I will say one thing in Scouse's defence this time, however. It is that I agree with his question as to why you choose to 'rubbish' the thread. Had this been misplaced on General (not unlike many crossovers here!) I could understand it but it is correctly lodged and should be discussed as such.   Mike,I have no affiliation with any UK party , of any hue, never have, and I certainly have no 'true-blue' colleagues as you put it. I think all political parties, on their day, are every bit as incompetent as each other, though clearly in the case of the Blair/Brown lot they placed themselves at Olympian levels of such incompetence. I can see that, and can acknowledge it on the basis of fact, which some people  cannot, and despite all the evidence to support that fact, will blindly blame any government which isn't Labour. It's as predictable as next week having a Wednesday in the middle. I don't agree with you either, in that you seem to be advocating predetermined rules of engagement, and of course you know full well that I shall ignore them! Do enjoy the chocolate! Last edited by Colin Hall
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Nobby 29 April 2012 11:03
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: john daly Perhaps this thread would be a place for members  to relate how they found things in the 60s  Not political but just their circumstances at this time. Perhaps John, but then you may want to look at who first placed a political bent to the thread! I actually missed the 60s, all that free love and flowers in the hair business, its been one of my eternal regrets!
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Sit Vis Nobiscum. 29 April 2012 11:28
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Colin Hall Perhaps John, but then you may want to look at who first placed a political bent to the thread! I actually missed the 60s, all that free love and flowers in the hair business, it's been one of my eternal regrets! No ones stopping you putting a flower in your hair now.
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..... 29 April 2012 11:35
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Originally Posted by
[QUOTE]Quoting: Colin Davies [I] No one's stopping you putting a flower in your hair now. Problem there Colin, At our age the hair is mostly up nose, ears and a....
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John Richards 29 April 2012 12:28
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: john daly [I]Quoting: Colin Davies [I] No one's stopping you putting a flower in your hair now. Problem there Colin,  At our age the hair is mostly up nose, ears and a.... [/I] I couldnt put a flower in my hair, John, though I might stick one on my head with sellotape.
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Terry Carey 29 April 2012 14:18
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Originally Posted by
Back to the bad old 30s

I find it hard to credit Scouses assertions of a Labour Government imposing a Means Test on he and his family although I am sure he is telling the truth. Knowing his character as I do I cant believe that he would lie in that manner but it doesnt sit with what I know of the 60s. Maybe in Liverpool the DHSS worked on different levels to elsewhere but as far as I know no-one in those days anywhere in Britain had to sell things before being given assistance. It happened in the 30s all too often and the favourite story I heard many times was that families had to sell their piano. Why so many families had a piano to sell when no one could play one is a mystery and I am not seeking to make light of the subject. In fact the 30s was a decade which saw a superb recovery in Britain after the Wall Street crash of 1929. Initially the 30s were ushered in by a Labour government which was quite incompetent (where have I heard that before?) but which was, in 1931 or 1932 superseded by the National Government led by and dominated by Tories. Neville Chamberlain, a man who was certainly not born with a silver spoon in his mouth became Chancellor and did what was required. That is that he cut expenditure and waste. During the Thirties there was a massive boom in house building enabling many to own their own house for the first time, Income Tax was cut, the car industry boomed as did ship building and by 1939 we were a prosperous country once again. Britain in the Thirties came out of recession quicker and better than any other nation. I was born in 1930 and although we were poor by modern standards my Dad always managed to get a job. He died at the age of 57 totally worn out by this but I grew up well nourished as did my siblings. The Sixties were generally a boom time, it was the era of Live Now and Pay Later, HP enabled most to have a car, TV, holidays and many things now taken for granted. The greatest problem facing Britain is, after the disgraceful dereliction of National interests by Blair and Brown that their successors are proving to be shiftless and farting about with such matters as Gay marriage and House Of Lords reform which are the last things that should be on their minds. I recently mentioned that the legislation introducing fixed five year Parliamentary Terms has mainly slipped under the Radar to most people. This means that any set of dead legs is safe for that period should they get elected. All they need do is draw their salaries without fear of rejection at the polls until the time is up. This will never make for good government. Governments can no longer be defeated by losing a vote of confidence even if one is called. Just to let every one know where I stand on the House of Lords I never found any fault with the way it used to be. Peers of the Realm discussed and voted according to their consciences generally without bothering about Party but simply on the merits of the matter to hand. What spoiled that was the ennobling of people simply for donations or carrying the Party flag for X number of years and the desire to create as many Life Peers as necessary to get a Partys legislation through into law. I think thats enough for now. TC.
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Nobby 29 April 2012 14:35
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Originally Posted by
All true Terry! There is another salient point on what provides current poor governance in the UK and it is that Cameron has a millstone around his neck name of Clegg! The country is driving with the handbrake on. Now back to those flowers...I could, should I choose, place a flower in my hair, as I still have most of it.
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Sit Vis Nobiscum. 29 April 2012 14:58
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Colin Hall All true Terry! Now back to those flowers...I could, should I choose, place a flower in my hair, as I still have most of it. Go for it!!!
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Terry Carey 29 April 2012 15:00
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Originally Posted by
Back to the bad old 30s

Indeed Colin but Cameron hasnt the balls to tell the whole LibDem lot to shut up and realise they are only there on sufferance and to let him get on with what is needed.
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Mo 29 April 2012 15:44
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Originally Posted by
[QUOTE]Quoting: Mike Pass[/B] [I]Both of the major parties are populated by 100% gross incompetents. Labour is the party of theft and the Tories are the party of sleaze. The rest are simple zeroes! The only current difference between the Reds and Blues is that the latter is going hell for leather to stuff the country faster than the Reds could ever achieve. To assume that either is/was better than the other is incredibly naive. I am only grateful that I was never taken in by either of them from childhood onwards! [/I][/QUOTE]bit of strange tooing and froing amongst members as to who fared better under which ever party was in power , well as one of those who have been through the Strike ridden 70s , the recessions and redundancies of the 80s/early 90s and who was prepared to take a job any where even outsid of my normal occupation (which in effect allowed me to pay the full 44 years contributions ) i have now a liveable State Pension Inclusive of S.E.R.P.S. own a nice little Bungalow, worth considerably more than i paid for it in the 1980s , which went up in line with the Council House prices that wre sold to the public at the same time, now that is one of the pluses as there as been a few minuses along the overseen by both political parties , in effect what i am trying to say is that you Win some and you Lose some whoever is in power, i think to be fair lets give This lot ,lets say about another year , after all they were left a Note when they took over that said The Coffers are Empty!!!!! ::pinch::pinch:: :pinch:
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Sit Vis Nobiscum. 29 April 2012 15:46
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Terry Carey Indeed Colin but Cameron hasn't the balls to tell the whole LibDem lot to shut up and realise they are only there on sufferance and to let him get on with what is needed.   Not only has not got the balls, he also does not have the leadership skills, as he has never had a job outside politics. Another worry is this: David Cameron and Nick Clegg carved up the Cabinet jobs for their well-heeled public school chums. Of the 16 privately-educated ministers, the PM is joined by two other old Etonians. And his deputy has two colleagues who also attended Westminster. The Etonians are Minister of State in the Cabinet Oliver Letwin and Commons Leader Sir George Young while the ministers who went to the same exclusive school as Mr Clegg are Energy boss Chris Huhne and Attorney General Dominic Grieve. Other public schoolboys are Chancellor George Osborne, who went to St Paul's in London, International Development Secretary Andrew Mitchell (Rugby) and Culture Secretary Jeremy Hunt who was head boy at Charterhouse. Twenty of the 29 posts have been handed out to Oxford or Cambridge graduates in what is the poshest Cabinet for a generation.
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John (Scouse) Hirons 29 April 2012 16:28
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Originally Posted by
We have seen some fancy foot work going on here, from, what in my own mind, is the most disgusting situation this country has been subjected to, good honest people being forced to feed their families by charitable hand outs to strange people wanting to put flowers in their hair Im just glad they werent in my billet. Now lets go back to the reason I started this thread & I will make it easy as I can. Has anyone got the bottle to answer these simple questions, theyre not too hard & Ive used no big words to make them easy to understand; Do you think it's right that in one of the worlds richest countries that people, through no fault of their own, should have to get charitable food handouts to feed their families? Do you think it's right when people are being forced into poverty by deliberate government policy that the richest in the land should be given, by the same Government, an extra 5p in the pound? Do you honestly believe that "we're all in it together"? I look forward to the answers even though I know its unlikely that I will get any because to answer honestly would condemn the current administration & we cant have that can we.
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Sit Vis Nobiscum. 29 April 2012 16:56
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: John (scouse) Hirons We have seen some fancy foot work going on here, from, what in my own mind, is the most disgusting situation this country has been subjected to, good honest people being forced to feed their families by charitable hand outs to strange people wanting to put flowers in their hair I'm just glad they weren't in my billet. Now let's go back to the reason I started this thread & I will make it easy as I can. Has anyone got the bottle to answer these simple questions, they're not too hard & I've used no 'big' words to make them easy to understand; Do you think it's right that in one of the worlds richest countries that people, through no fault of their own, should have to get charitable food handouts to feed their families? Do you think it's right when people are being forced into poverty by deliberate government policy that the richest in the land should be given, by the same Government, an extra 5p in the pound? Do you honestly believe that "we're all in it together"? I look forward to the answers even though I know it's unlikely that I will get any because to answer honestly would condemn the current administration & we can't have that can we. So you reckon that my posting prior to the above quotation is not a condemnation of the present administration, Colin Halls use of the words "poor governance" is really a back handed compliment. Terry Carey "Cameron hasnt got the balls" all words of praise, this is one of the first threads on this site that I have seen that is condemning the government, by the vast majority of the posters, maybe youre upset that we also pointed the finger at the previous administration as well!
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Who Does Guard The Guardians?? 29 April 2012 16:58
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Originally Posted by
One question, all these poor people queueing for charitable handouts, (food), these I take, are the unemployed with families, if they are not buying food with their benefits, what are they spending the money on??? surely the first priority for a family man/woman is to feed the kids. I agree that the 5p in the pound tax relief to the richest is a kick in the teeth to the rest of us, but in the grand scheme of things it does not amount to enough to make any appreciative difference to the economy. Whichever way you view it, we are in this together, the subtle difference is, the wealthy can afford it, always have, and always will. Please stop refering to call me Dave as a conservative, he uses that title, but has no more idea of the meaning of the word, than his ability to flap his arms and fly.
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Mike Pass 29 April 2012 17:48
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Originally Posted by
Hhhmmm!!!!!

Quoting: John (scouse) Hirons I look forward to the answers even though I know it's unlikely that I will get any because to answer honestly would condemn the current administration & we can't have that can we. Certainly cant get me on that ticket!!!!!!!
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John (Scouse) Hirons 29 April 2012 18:38
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Colin Davies So you reckon that my posting prior to the above quotation is not a condemnation of the present administration, Colin Hall's use of the words "poor governance" is really a back handed compliment. Terry Carey "Cameron hasn't got the balls" all words of praise, this is one of the first threads on this site that I have seen that is condemning the government, by the vast majority of the posters, maybe you're upset that we also pointed the finger at the previous administration as well! Alright Colin, As I was the first to point out that it was under Labour administration that I had hardship I think your theory Im in some weird & wonderful way "upset that we also pointed the finger at the previous administration as well!" but I will point out it wasnt the "previous administration" that created the laws that have caused this current hardship for some but plenty for others. I also note that you havent answered the three easy questions.
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John (Scouse) Hirons 29 April 2012 18:59
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Don Knight One question, all these poor people queueing for charitable handouts, (food), these I take,  are the unemployed with families, if they are not buying food with their benefits, what are they spending the money on??? surely the first priority for a family man/woman is to feed the kids. I agree that the 5p in the pound tax relief to the richest is a kick in the teeth to the rest of us, but in the grand scheme of things it does not amount to enough to make any appreciative difference to the economy. Whichever way you view it, we are in this together, the subtle difference is, the wealthy can afford it, always have, and always will. Please stop refering to call me Dave as a conservative, he uses that title, but has no more idea of the meaning of the word, than his ability to flap his arms and fly. Alright Don, Thanks for being the only poster to answer the questions. The largest increase in the handout queues is from the low paid & the recently redundant. The food is only given out after a means test. The 5p in the pound works out at over £1000 per year in the pockets of the very rich,when you take in the increase in the tax free allowance & pensions then deduct all the cuts in allowance & benefits levied on the average low paid worker, pensioner & unemployed they will lose between £54 - £150 per year. The only way we can all be in it together is if we all suffered loss & hardship but the current administration have taken from those who can least afford it & given it to very rich. They even refuse to tax the massive bonuses paid to the bankers & theyre the ones that caused this problem.
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John (Scouse) Hirons 29 April 2012 19:03
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Mike Pass Certainly can't get me on that ticket!!!!!!! Alright Mike, Very true me auld mate at least youre consistent in your condemnation of ALL politicians.
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Sit Vis Nobiscum. 29 April 2012 19:12
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: John (scouse) Hirons Alright Colin, As I was the first to point out that it was under Labour administration that I had hardship I think your theory I'm in some weird & wonderful way "upset that we also pointed the finger at the previous administration as well!" but I will point out it wasn't the "previous administration" that created the laws that have caused this current hardship for some but plenty for others. I also note that you haven't answered the three easy questions. Three easy answers to three easy questions, No, no & no. But then, I would think that the way the question is phrased anybody would give the same answers.
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John (Scouse) Hirons 29 April 2012 19:44
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Colin Davies Three easy answers to three easy questions, No, no & no. But then, I would think that the way the question is phrased anybody would give the same answers. Alright Colin, Thanks for that, I only put down the bare facts in my questions & to be honest no reasonable man could help but think the situation is wrong no matter how it was worded.
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Nobby 29 April 2012 20:11
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: John (scouse) Hirons Alright Colin, Thanks for that, I only put down the bare facts in my questions & to be honest no reasonable man could help but think the situation is wrong no matter how it was worded. So what youre saying Scouse, in your own words,"no reasonable man" is that anyone not in agreement with you is unreasonable!
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Sit Vis Nobiscum. 29 April 2012 20:59
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Originally Posted by
the way those questions are couched David Cameron & George Osbourne would answer "no" to each!
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John (Scouse) Hirons 29 April 2012 21:12
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Colin Hall So what you're saying Scouse, in your own words,"no reasonable man"  is that anyone not in agreement with you is unreasonable! alright Colin, Nice try son, you know what it means but anything to divert attention eh, sorry you missed by a mile. However, I do think everyone has noticed that not only have you not given an answer but instead you keep throwing up attempted smoke screens to divert the thread. Hmmmm could it be a nerve has been hit? Last edited by John (scouse) Hirons
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John (Scouse) Hirons 29 April 2012 21:15
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Colin Davies the way those questions are couched David Cameron & George Osbourne would answer "no" to each! Alright Colin, If you think Ive been unfair how would you have couched the questions & still stated the facts of the case?
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Steve Greenwood 30 April 2012 09:29
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Originally Posted by
I read all posts but pay particular attention to those relating to politics. This thread has again developed into the free for all of party A against party B but no-one comes up with a viable, sensible solution to the trials and tribulations of Britain! One thing that should not be forgotten is that most of Europe is in the same(or worse) situation as Britain. This is a World Wide recession and will take years to sort out no matter who is in power. I could go on at length about this but there are far more intelligent people who cant come up with the answers either.
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Geordie 30 April 2012 10:23
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Originally Posted by
I think they do know the answer Steve.
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John (Scouse) Hirons 30 April 2012 10:41
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Steve Greenwood I read all posts but pay particular attention to those relating to politics. This thread has again developed  into the free for all of party A against party B but no-one comes up with a viable, sensible solution to the trials and tribulations of  Britain! One thing that should not be forgotten is that most of Europe is in the same(or worse) situation as Britain.  This is a World Wide recession and will take years to sort out no matter who is in power. I could go on at length about this but there are far more intelligent people who can't come up with the answers either.   Alright Steve, I know the countries in debt & I know it has to be paid back but it looks like the poor are the ones paying it, the rich are being given more money by the Government & they have the nerve to say were all in it together.
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Terry Carey 30 April 2012 20:04
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: John (scouse) Hirons [I look forward to the answers even though I know it's unlikely that I will get any because to answer honestly would condemn the current administration & we can't have that can we. [/I] Have you not read my post from yesterday Scouse? I thought that was pretty condemnatory. There are others in the same vein as mine. TC.
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John (Scouse) Hirons 30 April 2012 23:27
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Terry Carey Have you not read my post from yesterday Scouse?  I thought that was pretty condemnatory.  There are others in the same vein as mine. TC. Alright Terry, I did indeed me auld mate but I think youll agree it was only Colin Davis that condemned the Cameron cabal for what they are & not tried to restrict the criticism to him joining up with & not controlling Clegg. Others tried to divert the thread to avoid the embarrassment of having to say or watch it being said that the current administration has got its priorities wrong. Even the Tory back benches are beginning to attack the cabinet over the gross inequality of their policies.
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Roly01 30 April 2012 23:49
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: John (scouse) Hirons Alright Terry, I did indeed me auld mate but I think you'll agree it was only Colin Davis that condemned the Cameron cabal for what they are & not tried to restrict the criticism to him joining up with & not controlling Clegg. Others tried to divert the thread to avoid the embarrassment of having to say or watch it being said that the current administration has got it's priorities wrong. Even the Tory back benches are beginning to attack the cabinet over the gross inequality of their policies. "We will all be runed" Moaned Hanrahhan! The whole country is stuffed to my thinking.
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Sit Vis Nobiscum. 01 May 2012 09:32
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: John (scouse) Hirons Alright Colin, If you think I've been unfair how would you have couched the questions & still stated the facts of the case? 1)Do you think it's right that in one of the worlds richest countries that people, through no fault of their own, should have to get charitable food handouts to feed their families? 2)Do you think it's right when people are being forced into poverty by deliberate government policy that the richest in the land should be given, by the same Government, an extra 5p in the pound? 3)Do you honestly believe that "we're all in it together"? No problem with Q3 Q1. if i were to ask the question at all, I may like to add, "When we are giving billions of pounds in aid to countries that have nuclear weapons programs and Billion dollar space programs, and some of the population of those countries have stated that they are happy to bring death and destruction here!" (and to other countries.) Q2. The facts of the case have not been stated, the government are not giving the richest in the land an extra 5p in the pound. Im assuming that you are referring to the lowering of the Additional Rate tax paid on earnings by 5p for those earning over £150,000. That is not the Goverment giving 5p in the pound, that is the revenue taking 5p in the pound less over the 50% additional rate threshold. As an example a person earning £200000: At that rate of pay, the person gets NO tax free allowance; so 100% of income is taxable. Basic Rate tax will be £6,874 at 20% Higher Rate tax will be £46,252 at 40% Top Rate tax will be £25,000 at 50% National Insurance £7,337 Total Deductions £85,463 The reduction in Top Rate tax to 45% will mean that the top rate will reduce to £23,750 a reduction of £1,250. So as I said before the Govenment is NOT giving the richest in the land 5p in the £ extra. it is taking 5p in the £ less on income over £150000. So I may have phrased the question, "Is it right, that the government is reducing the 50% Top Rate of tax to 45% for those earning over £150000." And the answer to that question would still be, no. But probably for a completely different reason than you would give If nothing else that has been an interesting excercise, I dont normally deal with sums of that size
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