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needed to be done for British Vets & Service Personnel

{{forumThread.upVotes}} Created by The Huntress 30 March 2012 12:05 8027 views Link  
The Huntress 30 March 2012 12:05
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Originally Posted by
needed to be done for British Vets & Service Personnel

here you go Kev, love. Your own thread! You can keep your topic going on here and post your thoughts whenever you like, we read them, may not always answer, if we agree but may also join in as well. good luck love.
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Kev B 30 March 2012 14:16
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Originally Posted by
More help needed for British Servicemen & Women, Veterans

Thank you Mrs Patircia Davies, Well fellow members Mr Tony Morland has worked very hard over the many years trying to get my father and million other British Veterans National Defence Medal. Some will agree other wont but its time for a new Medal review board. The Victorian Days of Board Medal System is long overdue. Yes the American system they have more medals awarded but they respect everyone. In addition, as always more help is needed for British Forces and Veterans and their families. Those are the ones that keep on the front line and give all the sacrifices for peace. The Charities are brilliant foundation which helps thousands of Veterans and families but surely some type of Veterans Tax could also help keep the defence force viable and help all who served for the United Kingdom. Please get behind Mr Tony Morland and his fellow British Veterans Lest We Forget & God Bless them all.
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John (Scouse) Hirons 30 March 2012 15:01
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Originally Posted by
Alright Kev, No-one can argue against more help being given to ex-service personnel but I cant see how giving a gong for not doing anything can achieve that. The Americans give away medals like sweeties at a kindergarten, If a Yank is posted to the UK he gets a gong for flying the Atlantic East to West, he then gets another for serving overseas. When he is tour-ex he will get another for flying the Atlantic west to east. If a British serviceman earns his marksman he gets a cloth cross rifle badge, the Yanks get yet another medal. If a Yank has his ingrowning toenails removed in an operational theater he gets the purple heart medal. the list goes on & on & on. A Yankie soldier who has done nowt & sees nowt still ends up with a chest like a Ruritanian General, all shiney things & bog chains. The UK services do not play these silly pin something to my chest games. If you serve in a campaign that has an award you get a gong for that, if you serve in a theater that has no specific award you get a General Service Medal, If your actions merit a Mention in Despatches you get a small badge to put on your medals ribbon. From that point onward medals are only given for acts of valour & thats how it should be. Should I get a gong for just being in the mob during the cold war (meaning no fighting type of non-war) NO. The argument that we could have been called to action doesnt wash, if that were the case I want a VC as I could have been asked to do an extremely brave act.
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Kev B 30 March 2012 15:11
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Originally Posted by
needed to be done for British Vets & Service Personnel

Hi John, Thanks for the reply. The criteria for the  Purple Heart , http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Awards/purple_heart.aspx http://www.purpleheart.org/membereligibility.aspx Last edited by Kev bywater Well how about IRA mainland bombing campaign & overseas terrorism John did you have a family member caught in IED ? Last edited by Kev bywater
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Fr Admin 30 March 2012 15:15
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Originally Posted by
It got my goat in the first Gulf War, where those in Cyprus were awarded the Medal, Just because they were in range of a scud! Scuds were so crap that should one have been fired at Cyprus it would have probably landed in North Africa! I do not see how being in Cyprus should have merited the same Gong as those who crossed in to Kuwait, those that crossed into Kuwait were awarded a tiny little rosette to sew onto their Medal Ribbon to show that they were in action. Pointless. As meritorious as Mr Moreland's project and campaign is, the issue of Medals because you were in Uniform at any given time will lower the honour, value and credit placed on the medals worn by those that took Incoming Fire and who had to fire back and suffered deprivations because of the theaters of operations they were in. p.s. The last issue of the Stars and Stripes (US issued Newspaper for the forces) A chef was given a Commanders Citation for............................................ Baking Cakes and Cookies for the wives and children of Deployed personnel in Kosovo! This entitled him to wear a pretty little Badge thingy on his Unit Flash! Last edited by Phil Beacall
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Fr Admin 30 March 2012 15:28
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Kev bywater Hi John, Thanks for the reply. The criteria for the  Purple Heart , http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Awards/purple_heart.aspx Last edited by Kev bywater Kev, that is not the criteria for the Purple Heart, you will find the criteria on Army Regulation 600-8-22, Military Awards. Which you will find here, this is a bit like the US Version of Queens Regulations for the Army (Medals, Honours and Awards):   http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r600_8_22.pdf Bloomin eck! How many awards medfals and badges and Streamers? can one country award? Here are a few items for the Legion of Merit (Purple Heart): d. The Legion of Merit, in the degrees listed in table 1-2 below, may be awarded to foreign military personnel, to include foreign general officers, who distinguish themselves by "exceptional meritorious conduct in performance of outstanding service" to the United States in accordance with Executive Order 9260, 29 October 1942, which has been amended by Executive Order 10600, 15 March 1955. Table 1-2 Degrees of the Legion of Merit Degrees of the Legion of Merit Awarded to Degree of Chief Commander Chief of State or Head of Government Degree of Commander Equivalent to Army Chief of Staff or higher, but not Chief of State Degree of Officer General officers in positions below Chief of Staff level; ranks equivalent to colonel for service in positions normally held by general officers in the U.S. Army and foreign Military attaches Degree of Legionnaire All other foreign personnel Last edited by Phil Beacall
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Kev B 30 March 2012 15:31
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Originally Posted by
needed to be done for British Vets & Service Personnel

Thanks Phill, Yes there needs to be more investigation on criteria for awards and new board which is fair and free in democratic system. The board  should be elected by the  MOD,  Parliament and Veteran Charities. If you don't want a gong don't take it if its awarded simple as that. Also no one is asking to go down the USA method but a new look at the British Medal Award System we live in 21 st Century. The Queen has given her seal towards Australia and New Zealand they are still part of the Commonwealth and the Queen is still the head of these Nations. Last edited by Kev bywater Last edited by Kev bywater
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John (Scouse) Hirons 30 March 2012 15:41
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Kev bywater Thanks Phill, Yes there needs to be more investigation on criteria for awards and new board which is fair and free in democratic system. The board  should be elected by the  MOD,  Parliament and Veteran Charities. If you don't want a gong don't take it if its awarded simple as that. Last edited by Kev bywater Alright Kev, Its not that I dont want a gong, its simply that I like most servicemen have not deserved one. Giving an award to someone for putting on a uniform in times of peace is devaluing the medals given to men & women who have done something to merit them. If people want to adorn their chests with bits of tin & plastic for doing nothing let them buy them from medal makers there are enough of them, they may impress the civvies but not the serviceman/woman who knows there worth.
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Nobby 30 March 2012 15:49
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Phil Beacall [I] As meritorious as Mr Moreland's project and campaign is, the issue of Medals because you were in Uniform at any given time will lower the honour, value and credit placed on the medals worn by those that took Incoming Fire and who had to fire back and suffered deprivations because of the theaters of operations they were in. ] Sorry chasps, but Im going to disagree! First of all I think youre not comparing apples with apples In comparing a "Service" award with a campaign medal. Theyre not the same and should not be confused. All British and Commonwealth during WW2 were given an "Defence Medal" of sorts to recognise service during that period, even if they never got out of the UK/NZ/Australia or wherever! Since the end of the war, there have always been thousands of people who have completed there stretch without necessarily being exposed to anything more dangerous than a NAAFI sandwich, and have absolutely nothing to show for it. Introducing a post-war Service medal is not lowering any other medal worn by people who did their bit in a sandpit somewhere, because it clearly isnt the same thing, and it most certainly isnt in any way following American practice of gaining medals for being first in the queue for breakfast! Last year, New Zealand instituted a Defence Service Medal and I was one of the first to receive it, in a very nice box, along with a miniature. Ive had it mounted along with my other medals.
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Kev B 30 March 2012 15:52
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Originally Posted by
needed to be done for British Vets & Service Personnel

John I understand what you saying but it was not peace time for everyone from IRA Mainland Bombing areas. Just think of all the British Servicemen and Women and their families who faced the threat everyday on those base which were attacked and even the Queen suffered a personnel lost. Therefore a British National Defence Medal would symbolised Britian did face a IRA insurgency war on the mainland and oversees from many terrorist groups in Aden, Egypt, Libya,Malaya, Indonesia during the Cold War. How about the BAOR folks in Germany facing the Soviets?
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Nobby 30 March 2012 15:57
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: John (scouse) Hirons Alright Kev, It's not that I don't want a gong, it's simply that I like most servicemen have not deserved one. Giving an award to someone for putting on a uniform in times of peace is devaluing the medals given to men & women who have done something to merit them. If people want to adorn their chests with bits of tin & plastic for doing nothing let them buy them from medal makers there are enough of them, they may impress the civvies but not the serviceman/woman who knows there worth.   See my other post Scouse where I clearly disagree because youre wrong! An "Award" recognising service has nothing to do with any other medal. It also,[ because I have one!] is most definitely not a "bit of tin or plastic", and I believe that, contrary to the view that it will be worn to impress those that dont know, it will in fact be due recognition for service to Aunty Betty! This is mine!
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Fr Admin 30 March 2012 15:57
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Kev bywater Thanks Phill, Yes there needs to be more investigation on criteria for awards and new board which is fair and free in democratic system. The board  should be elected by the  MOD,  Parliament and Veteran Charities. If you don't want a gong don't take it if its awarded simple as that. Last edited by Kev bywater Thats the Whole point of the British System Kev, Awards, Honours and Medals are Issued, you cannot refuse them. They are issued because they "the Committee and Ultimately HRH Queen Elizabeth II" see a need to Recognise the Dedication and Hardships, the Blood, Sacrifice and suffering that has been seen, suffered and inflicted by Personnel on Operational Deployments. No Service person who is issued a medal by the Awards committee and HRH Queen Elizabeth II is going to refuse them as they are recognition for the Blood the Guts, the missed Birthdays/Christmases/Anniversaries/Births and Sickness of their loved ones, the lost friends and comrades, the threats and the sheer fear you experience when your on a checkpoint in downtown Basra and some Iraqi is approaching you wearing a Large padded jacket in the middle of summer and only yesterday they did the same only blew up on a Yank checkpoint 15 Miles up the same road! Issuing Medals for the sake of Bling is a No No! I agree with an award for being Injured by Enemy Action like the old Stripe issued I think during WW1 & 2, but come on Kev this really is not on. It boils my blood when I see blokes on Parade at the local cenotaph wearing the bought Bling such as the BAOR medal and such, for gods sake. My mate Ryan 22 years old this year lost both legs in Afghan at the age of 19 has one Medal, his Op Herrick medal! Now that is not enough in my opinion, but ask him does he want a bling medal and he will try and feed you his wheelchair! These chaps with bought bling did 6 Years in Germany drinking and playing with fraulines went over to NI for a few months once and still think they deserve a medal for getting drunk in downtown Beilefeld! No Kev, credit where credit is due, that is what makes our medals so special, you Get the Award for doing an exceptional Job in difficult circumstances and I dont mean Stagging on in an none air conditioned Guardroom in Gutersloh!
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Nobby 30 March 2012 16:06
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Originally Posted by
In fact Phil, you can refuse them! There have been a number of recorded instances where Awards have been declined, and/or returned. The Beatles sent their's back for some reason! My best man got an MBE and was never quite sure what  he'd done but wears it all the same. It most certainly isn't "bling" and nor is the Defence Service Medal that I have! I am personally aware of a number of people who have been contacted regarding an impending award and have declined them. At least one [NZ] Prime Minister claimed to have declined a Knighthood, but then he was Labour so could well have been dreaming! Last edited by Colin Hall
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None 30 March 2012 17:24
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Originally Posted by
Micky Mouse Medals

Come to Accrington we have a group of ex servicemen who wear all of their gubbins from their career on Blazers, Specialist Badges, Corp/Regimental Blazer Badges, Medal Ribbons and one even proudly wears his maroon beret and Parachute Regiment Cap badge [even though he was in the RAF Regiment]. These Christmas Trees negate any respect that they had earned.
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Mo 30 March 2012 17:33
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Originally Posted by
medals

[QUOTE]Quoting: Kev bywater[/B] [I]John I understand what you saying but it was not peace time for everyone from IRA Mainland Bombing areas.  Just think of all the British Servicemen and Women and their families who faced the threat everyday on those base which were attacked and even the Queen suffered a personnel lost.  Therefore a British National Defence Medal would symbolised Britian did face a IRA insurgency war on the mainland and oversees from many terrorist groups in Aden, Egypt, Libya,Malaya, Indonesia during the Cold War. How about the BAOR folks in Germany facing the Soviets? [/I][/QUOTE]after following the discussions circa the pros and cons and at the same time over the last Decade seen the ever quickening decline of this once proud Nation where Medals were awarded to thousands of men and women who fought and died to protect it(my father among many others had one pinned to his chest by the late King) ithink that on their behalf we should along with our own send them all back with the message "We and our Forefathers fought to keep this Island and you lot have surrendered it away " so you can melt them down for Scrap to help pay off the National Debt.:crazy: :crazy:
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John (Scouse) Hirons 30 March 2012 17:40
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Colin Hall See my other post Scouse where I clearly disagree because you're wrong!  An "Award" recognising service has nothing to do with any other medal. It also,[ because I have one!] is most definitely not a "bit of tin or plastic", and I believe that, contrary to the view that it will be worn to impress those that don't know, it will in fact be due recognition for service to Aunty Betty! This is mine! Alright Colin, Surely you cant defend the American award system were in his first year of service & with out leaving his country a serviceman can earn a chest full of medals. With all due respect I still think that giving a gong for not doing anything or for not being in a place were harm is likely to happen is wrong & I hope we will never do it. The only decoration a man has to wear on his chest to get my respect is the HM Veterans badge.
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..... 30 March 2012 17:42
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Phil Beacall Thats the Whole point of the British System Kev, Awards, Honours and Medals are Issued, you cannot refuse them. They are issued because they "the Committee and Ultimately HRH Queen Elizabeth II" see a need to Recognise the Dedication and Hardships, the Blood,  Sacrifice and suffering that has been seen, suffered and inflicted by Personnel on Operational Deployments. No Service person who is issued a medal by the Awards committee and HRH Queen Elizabeth II is going to refuse them as they are recognition for the Blood the Guts, the missed Birthdays/Christmases/Anniversaries/Births and Sickness of their loved ones, the lost friends and comrades, the threats and the sheer fear you experience when your on a checkpoint in downtown Basra and some Iraqi is approaching you wearing a Large padded jacket in the middle of summer and only yesterday they did the same only blew up on a Yank checkpoint 15 Miles up the same road! Issuing Medals for the sake of Bling is a No No! I agree with an award for being Injured by Enemy Action like the old Stripe issued I think during WW1 & 2, but come on Kev this really is not on. It boils my blood when I see blokes on Parade at the local cenotaph wearing the bought Bling such as the BAOR medal and such, for gods sake. My mate Ryan 22 years old this year lost both legs in Afghan at the age of 19 has one Medal, his Op Herrick medal! Now that is not enough in my opinion, but ask him does he want a bling medal and he will try and feed you his wheelchair! These chaps with bought bling did 6 Years in Germany drinking and playing with fraulines went over to NI for a few months once and still think they deserve a medal for getting drunk in downtown Beilefeld! No Kev, credit where credit is due, that is what makes our medals so special, you Get the Award for doing an exceptional Job in difficult circumstances and I don't mean Stagging on in an none air conditioned Guardroom in Gutersloh! Think you have put it all very well in a nutshell there Phil.
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Kev B 30 March 2012 18:11
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Originally Posted by
needed to be done for British Vets & Serivce Personnel

Hi John Daly, I meant the large amount of British Troops stationed in Germany during the COLD WAR defending Europe and Britian.  I never meant BAOR Medal . Remember the Korean War and not all of us have gave anything away! Also  my late grandfather saw action in Dunkirk, Normandy & wounded POW like many millions  went to war of that great generation.  I am  very proud of  his MOD Medals & his Dunkirk Association Medal, his French 50th Anniversary Medal and its Diploma. like his forefathers medals. He also helped as a civilian in removing body remains and derbies in 1974 IRA Birmingham bombings. I also agree no Bling medals on Left side and must be worn away from official MOD medals but that's their choice in a democracy! Lest We Forget Last edited by Kev bywater Last edited by Kev bywater
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Steve Greenwood 31 March 2012 08:38
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Originally Posted by
Just on a lighter note. My old Chief on board Victorious used to say "The Navy dosnt give out medals. They expect us to be brave!!"
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Murray Whyte 31 March 2012 09:15
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Originally Posted by
Tony Morland can work as hard and as long as he wishes to get the National Defence Medal. The Government will answer him with: For generations our Armed Forces have served our country across the world in many roles from war Image of Veterans Lapel Badgefighting, peacekeeping and reconstruction to home defence. In so doing, they have defended our country, our way of life and our cherished values. A large number of our veterans are young and active and now use the skills, the discipline and the leadership they learned in the Armed Forces to benefit their civilian employers and the wider community. The Ministry of Defence Strategy for Veterans highlights that because of all this it is important to focus on supporting veterans of all ages by celebrating, and raising public awareness of, their achievements and their contribution to society. To promote recognition of veterans by the wider British public the unique and unifying symbol of the HM Armed Forces Veterans Badge is available to all those who have served in HM Armed Forces. The HM Armed Forces Veterans' Lapel Badge was launched in May 2004 by the then Minister for Veterans, to raise the profile of veterans by assisting the wider public to recognise them. The first veterans badge was issued to Lord Healey, a veteran of the Battle for Monte Cassino, on 10 May 2004, which initiated the roll out of the badge to the generation who served in the Second World War. Since then eligibility to apply for the badge has been extended in sequential phases and now all veterans are eligible to apply. The badge is an enamelled, engraved, and pinned, lapel badge featuring the words "HM Armed Forces - Veteran", which encompass the Tri-Service, Anchor, Crossed Swords and Eagle motif. Its symbolism is intended to unite all veterans in recognising the commonality of their service, to encourage a sense of unity and community between surviving veterans and to ignite public recognition of our veterans and their continuing contribution to society. The Veterans UK website. In 2006 the then Armed Forces Minister, Adam Ingram, said: "Today there are 10 million veterans living, working and contributing across every walk of life in the United Kingdom. The HM Armed Forces Veterans Badge and UK Merchant Seafarers Veterans Badge are marks of our respect and gratitude. I am delighted to announce that we are extending the eligibility to a new group of thoroughly deserving veterans. These men and women served in small wars and counter insurgencies; in conflicts that are perhaps less in the limelight today. Conflicts that saw bloody fighting from the jungles of Malaya, Borneo and Sarawak to the dusty plains and city of Aden at the tip of the Arabian Peninsula. The HM Armed Forces Veterans badge has already been awarded to over 328,000 veterans - this latest extension will, I am delighted to say, reach out to yet thousands more. Similarly with its recent introduction in June this year the UK Merchant seafarers Veterans Badge has already been awarded to over 3000 recipients." He added: "As Winston Churchill said: A medal glitters, but it also casts a shadow. And those words certainly resonate today, in this week of Remembrance Sunday. As we commemorate the bravery and sacrifice of our commitment of our service personnel we also remember those who did not return. In Aden, for example, 167 British service personnel lost their lives. " The Veterans UK website
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Nobby 31 March 2012 09:34
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: John (scouse) Hirons Alright Colin, Surely you can't defend the American award system were in his first year of service & with out leaving his country a serviceman can 'earn' a chest full of medals.   With all due respect I still think that giving a gong for not doing anything or for not being in a place were harm is likely to happen is wrong & I hope we will never do it. The only decoration a man has to wear on his chest to get my respect is the HM Veterans badge. Youre correct, I cant defend the American system, and havent! Nor is that being proposed! What qualifications are required for a Veterans Badge?
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John Richards 31 March 2012 12:44
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Originally Posted by
Anyone can buy medals and badges through the internet and wear them on their jackets whenever they like. As far as I am aware, if these decorations are not recorded on that persons service documents, they have no substance. I left the RN in 1975 with three medals, BEM(Military), UN Korean Service Medal, and LS & GC Medal. They have remained in a box ever since because, although I am proud of them, as far as I am concerned they were a part of my uniform.
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Don’T Panic. 31 March 2012 15:20
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Originally Posted by
http://www.veterans-uk.info/vets_badge/vets_badge.htm This should provide you with the info you need Colin.
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Kev B 31 March 2012 16:50
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Originally Posted by
needed to be done for British Vets & Service Personnel

This is what I am talking about  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17475286   The True Hero's are the ones that don't come back and salute  all the teams that defuse those horrid  IED/EOD devices are the British Servicemen and Women of R.L.C (R.A.O.C) , R.E etc.! from the past and current. "Lest We Forget"   Last edited by Kev bywater Last edited by Kev bywater
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Nobby 31 March 2012 21:05
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Mike Thorne http://www.veterans-uk.info/vets_badge/vets_badge.htm This should provide you with the info you need Colin. Thanks Mike. I have one of those! It would appear here that some people are unclear as to what it is they are opposing in being against issue of a "Defense" medal available to who served on the grounds that that service should have limits on qualification, and yet they are quite happy with a Veterans Badge issue precisely on the same conditions of service? The criteria for issue of a Defence Medal are precisely those for issue of the Veterans badge! "To promote recognition of veterans by the wider British public the unique and unifying symbol of the HM Armed Forces Veterans Badge is available to all those who have served in HM Armed Forces".
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Ros Comain. 31 March 2012 22:27
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Colin Hall Thanks Mike. I have one of those! It would appear here that some people are unclear as to what it is they are opposing in being against issue of a "Defense" medal available to who served on the grounds that that service should have limits on qualification, and yet they are quite happy with a Veterans Badge issue precisely on the same conditions of service? The criteria for issue of a Defence Medal are precisely those for issue of the Veterans badge! "To promote recognition of veterans by the wider British public the unique and unifying symbol of the HM Armed Forces Veterans Badge is available to all those who have served in HM Armed Forces". Given that the criteria is the same for both, if you have a Veterans Badge, then, it is not necessary to have a Defence Medal. I personally believe that Medals should only be issued to those that have truely made sacrifices for the country, and of course, there are many, I have no doubt, on this site. I would also not purchase or display the FR Scroll, as the wording indicates sacrifices which I, in my own opinion, have never made, but again, I am sure there are many on the site, who justifiably deserve this citation.
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Nobby 31 March 2012 22:41
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Michael Potter Given that the criteria is the same for both, if you have a Veterans Badge, then, it is not necessary to have a Defence Medal.   I personally believe that Medals should only be issued to those that have truely made sacrifices for the country, and of course, there are many, I have no doubt, on this site.   If the criteria are the same Michael, and I agree with you that they are, [or would be], dont you see the contradiction on issue in that there are bound to many who served who have the Veterans Badge who would surely fit the criteria for both, and some,who would not but qualify anyway?
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Sit Vis Nobiscum. 1 April 2012 08:34
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Originally Posted by
I do have a Veterans badge, the only medal I qualified for was the GSM, with Northern Ireland Clasp.( Which I have not claimed)    This clasp was instituted for award to personnel involved in varying operations in Northern Ireland.    The general qualifying period is a minimum of 30 days' service between 14 August 1969 and 31 July 2007. The 30 days' service does not have to be composed of consecutive days. Should the qualifying period be cut short due to injury or death, then the completed days are counted as sufficient for the award of this clasp. My involvement was three Granada Patrols in 1982 and 1983, a Naval task which the RAF did to release RN Frigates for other duties, we used RAF Long Range Recovery & Support Craft Vessels (LRRSC), these patrols lasted 14 days not including transit time. So I had 42 days qualifying time. I never claimed the medal as I felt that, sailing from Carlingford Lough to Portrush for two weeks considering what army personnel went through in a six month deployment, did not compare. But that is just a personal opinion. The greatest danger I was in was running aground in Carlingford Lough, weathering a storm in the lea of Rathlin Island and the most dangerous, losing a rudder off Belfast. Last edited by Colin Davies Last edited by Colin Davies Last edited by Colin Davies
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Kev B 1 April 2012 09:00
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Originally Posted by
needed to be done for British Vets & Service Personnel

I am glad everyone is debating the issue and it should be aloud without any ridicule or rudeness. Colin Davies thats you right mate you earned it and I only collected my grandfather medals 65 years later which he never bothered due to seeing all the horror.
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Nobby 1 April 2012 10:06
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Originally Posted by
some people have the o[pinion you shouldnt bother with medals. Let me add a different perspective. When I retired [at age 57], I worked for six years in my local Returned Services Association [the NZ equivalent of the British Legion] on welfare of WW2 veterans. I recall one elderly gentleman, British, who came to see me one day and asked for help in getting his WW2 medals. Hed served in the Royal Engineers in the 8th Army in the Libyan desert, and, after Rommel, had been sent to Italy. He didnt get home until late 1945. He had no gallantry medals, just the usual campaign lot, yet hed never applied for them because, as he told me, "there was queue and hed had enough of queues". I wrote his letter to the UK and when the medals I had them mounted, for which I paid, and then gave him the full set. Hed earned them and the look on his face when I gave them to him will stay with me for a very long time!
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Al 1 April 2012 11:05
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Originally Posted by
Colin, That just about matches my experience with a WW2 Fighter/Bomber pilot who lived in Marham village. A pilot on Beaufighters and Mosquitos, he had quite an interesting war. We were going through his flying logbook one morning and out fell his application for his six campaign medals, filled out in 1945 and never sent! He felt that at the age of 83 that maybe he should have them, so I contacted the medals office for the new paperwork and we did the necessary. The medals duly arrived and Lesley brooched them for him. That year, on our annual village Remembrance Parade, Bernard appeared, leaning to the left with his six gongs and immediately stated that he felt embarrassed because he had more than many of the rest of us! Three years ago, age caught up with him and he passed peacefully away. He flew with 235 Sqn. (Beaufighters) out of RAFs Leuchars, St. Eval and Perrenporth and 618 Sqn.(Mosquitos) out of RAF Skitten and RAAF Narromine in Oz. I still miss his "Morning, old boy." and later "Cheerio, old boy."
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John Richards 1 April 2012 17:25
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Originally Posted by
Campaign medals are usually hard won, but some people gain decorations for being in the right place at the right time. Prince Charles has 8 medals:- 1. For being at home when his mother was crowned. 2. For being in Fiji when they became independent, 3. For being in Papua New Guinea when they got their independence. 4. For being at home for the Silver Jubilee. 5. For serving 12 years in the Canadian Armed Forces. 6. For making a contribution to New Zealand life through his virtues, talents and loyalty. 7. For being at home for the Golden Jubilee. 8. For being at home for the Diamond Jubilee. Alans old mate, Bernard was embarrassed wearing his 6 medals on parade, which shows that he was a true gentleman.
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Roly01 1 April 2012 22:35
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: John Richards Anyone can buy medals and badges through the internet and wear them on their jackets whenever they like. As far as I am aware, if these decorations are not recorded on that person's service documents, they have no substance. I left the RN in 1975 with three medals, BEM(Military), UN Korean Service Medal, and LS & GC Medal. They have remained in a box ever since because, although I am proud of them, as far as I am concerned they were a part of my uniform. Anybody can buy these badges and mock medals, but here in Australia it is a Federal Offence to wear them on the left breast of their jacket or uniform. This area is reserved for those that have earnt them through the service. I understood that this law applied in the UK also. The Returned Services League actively polices this law and prosecute those found breaking the law. You may wear the medals of close relatives who have passed on, on your right breast. ie Fathers or Grandfathers medals.
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Nobby 1 April 2012 23:26
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Originally Posted by
Likewise in NZ Roly! "The former Returned Services Association (RSA) local president accused of wearing war medals he didnt earn has entered no plea and will appear in court again next month. Don Moselen, the former president of the RSA in Otaki, north of Wellington, appeared in Levin District Court on Wednesday, charged under the 1918 Military Decorations and Distinctive Badges Act of wearing war medals he knew he wasnt entitled to. It is alleged he wore at least three medals, one pertaining to Vietnam War service, at Anzac Day services in 2010 and 2011 that he had not earned. He entered no plea and was remanded to appear again on April 11, Radio New Zealand reported. The offence carries a maximum fine of $500. Moselen is also charged with dishonestly using a document belonging to the Otaki RSA.
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None 2 April 2012 05:49
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Originally Posted by
yes it would appear that wearing medals that indivdiuals havent earn is quite common. Where I Live , Ever Remembrance Sunday There are group of individuals who look like the old saying goes "Fred karnos Army" One proudly wears his Maroon Beret on every parade, although he was in the RAF and never served in any of the units in Britains Airborne Forces. One has a Glengarry with two Cap Badges and a nice blue hackle. and they all wear their specialist and trade qualifications on their blazers, And have reams of medals which are the usual mick mouse gongs. Perhaps I should wear a Kepi Blanc when I go shopping at Morrisons
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..... 2 April 2012 09:28
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Edward George Penny yes it would appear that wearing medals that indivdiuals havent earn is quite common.   Where I Live ,  Ever Remembrance Sunday  There are group of individuals who look like the old saying  goes "Fred karno's Army"  One proudly wears his Maroon Beret on every parade, although he was in the RAF and never served in any of the units in Britains Airborne Forces.  One has a Glengarry with two Cap Badges and a nice blue hackle.  and they all wear their specialist and trade qualifications on their blazers, And have reams of medals which are the usual mick mouse gongs. Perhaps I should wear a Kepi Blanc when I go shopping at Morrisons Morning Ed. Any suggestions what to wear when shopping in Lidl or Aldi ?.
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Al 2 April 2012 09:34
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Originally Posted by
John, Bernard was indeed a true gentleman. When I said that Id served for mega years in the RAF, he realised that at last he had someone that he could relate to and over many mugs of tea, he talked and I listened. As an LAC aircrew cadet, he did his flying training in the USA on Strearmans (soloing after 9 hours) and Harvards. Commissioned following his "wings" award he returned to the UK and converted to twin engines on the Airspeed Oxford prior to being posted onto Beaufighters. The boss took him up for a trip to show him the knobs and switches - he stood behind the pilots seat for this familiarisation flight! Shortly after he became operational. Re.medals - totally agree with all comments. The rules in the UK are the same as in Oz and NZ, but are not quite so strictly controlled. The latest clown to be caught out had more medals than Monty, wore an SAS beret, blazer badge and tie and stood out like a sore thumb. I fail to understand why so many purchase the "artificial" gongs, they cost an arm and a leg. Theres no denying theyre well manufactured, hence the cost. Their worth to collectors is zero. On that subject, Ive more than a passing interest in medals and take Medal magazine every month. Even campaign medals and long gongs without a gallantry award attached are starting to fetch good prices on the collectors market, especially if the recipients details are included as well. So keep your genuine, awarded for service gongs under lock and key until you need them for a parade. Although our postwar medals are inscribed once more with our service details, thats the only security that we have.
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John (Scouse) Hirons 2 April 2012 16:11
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Colin Hall If the criteria are the same Michael, and I agree with you that they are, [or would be], don't you see the contradiction on issue in that there are bound to many who served who have the Veterans Badge who would surely fit the criteria for both, and some,who would not but qualify anyway? Alright Colin, The difference is to civvies a gong with a ribbon equals an act of bravery or that the wearer was in a place were the guns go bang, the Veterans Badge is small & has no ribbon it just recognizes the fact that the wear has been under the colours without any false impressions.
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Fr Admin 2 April 2012 16:28
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: John (scouse) Hirons Alright Colin, The difference is to civvies a gong with a ribbon equals an act of bravery or that the wearer was in a place were the guns go bang, the Veterans Badge is small & has no ribbon it just recognizes the fact that the wear has been under the colours without any false impressions.   Very true Scouse, Another Friend of mine, Stu Brooks, ex HCR (The Life Guards) did not serve where the guns went bang and is even sometimes unsure if wearing his Veterans Badge is appropriate.
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Nobby 2 April 2012 17:52
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: John (scouse) Hirons Alright Colin, The difference is to civvies a gong with a ribbon equals an act of bravery or that the wearer was in a place were the guns go bang, the Veterans Badge is small & has no ribbon it just recognizes the fact that the wear has been under the colours without any false impressions.   Well, that would account for the millions of medals and ribbons issued to people for serving in places where no shots were fired! A "gong with a ribbon" most certainly does not equate to an act of bravery, and its immaterial what civilians think surely? You could wear a row of coke can tabs and they wouldnt know!
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Nobby 2 April 2012 17:55
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Phil Beacall Very true Scouse, Another Friend of mine, Stu Brooks, ex HCR (The Life Guards) did not serve where the guns went bang and is even sometimes unsure if wearing his Veterans Badge is appropriate. Phil, I have a Veterans Badge, and had to apply for it, as did your mate, so why do so if you have qualms about wearing it, because that badge is most definitely not issued for being somewhere noisy. Its recognition of service, just like a Defence Medal!
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John Richards 2 April 2012 18:36
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Colin Hall You could wear a row of coke can tabs and they wouldn't know!
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Al 3 April 2012 08:09
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Originally Posted by
Phil, Wear the badge with pride mate. Its to show you served and has nothing to do with active service. What ever squadron badge etc. that I might be wearing, the Veterans Badge is always pinned to my lapel. Doesnt matter if you were NS, regular or reserve, if you wore the uniform, you qualify. Its a damn sight better than wearing one of those "artificial" medals, which are totally meaningless.
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Ceylon220 3 April 2012 10:32
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: John Richards I see that Charles has been in his treasure chest again, medals,uniforms etc----"What should I wear today, mummy?
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Ceylon220 3 April 2012 10:35
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Originally Posted by
I served 20 years in the navy +another 10 years in Reserve,never saw any action and never got a medal but I wear my Veterans Badge.
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..... 3 April 2012 10:41
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Dave Whitfield I see that Charles has been in his treasure chest again, medals,uniforms etc----"What should I wear today, mummy? Elvis only had seven, (five from being in Germany)
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Nobby 3 April 2012 10:48
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: john daly Elvis only had seven, (five from being in Germany) "Wella bless my soul..."
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..... 3 April 2012 11:21
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Originally Posted by
Dont forget "That good ole boy" Audie Murphy with Thirty Three Medals, . plus he saved Miss Clancy when the Baddies from town were trying to steal her Daddies ranch and put the Railroad through it. Also knocked spots off of various Injun nations.
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Nobby 3 April 2012 11:30
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: john daly Don't forget "That good ole boy" Audie Murphy with Thirty Three Medals, . plus he saved Miss Clancy when the Baddies from town were trying to steal her Daddies ranch and put the Railroad through it. Also knocked spots off of various Injun nations. He only achieved that for one reason and one reason only...he wore a white hat, [and had a gun that fired 350 rounds and never needed reloading]. If it had been black he would have died spectacularly...
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Mac 4 April 2012 07:55
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Dave Whitfield I served 20 years in the navy +another 10 years in Reserve,never saw any action and never got a medal but I wear my Veterans Badge. What happened to the Long Service & Good Conduct Medal, awarded for 15 years, Dave?
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