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Should religion be compulsorily taught in schools?

{{forumThread.upVotes}} Created by Mike Pass 24 November 2011 09:21 12959 views Link  
Mike Pass 24 November 2011 09:21
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Originally Posted by
Should religion be compulsorily taught in schools?

OK, so the title says it all. However, I will elaborate. (Making a note along the way that, even though a political aspect could apply - party politics does not....so don't even think about it or I will have the thread closed!). I am an Atheist. This is well known here and there are at least two more to my knowledge. As Atheists, unlike many Christians, we have no problems, whatsoever with the other practising their beliefs. They are simply not for us. My contention is this: Christianity has long, long been forced upon children in school under the guise of 'Religious Education or, R.E. if you will. I see this as unacceptable as part of the child's formative upbringing. My feeling is that, children should not be subjected, mandatorily to a subject so contentious. Apart from this, I recall my own classes in R.E. Our teachers must have been on drugs to possess the level of patience that they had! We spent all lesson picking out fallacies, lies and errors from the Bible and associated teachings. This does not mean that we felt ourselves to be the only ones 'in step' of course. We learned later about religious tolerance and came to respect those who held the views and those who broadcast them (though not those who chose to evangelise, as we once saw in these hallowed halls). For instance. Rev. Roger Perry is a man of God and also an ex-Boy Entrant. Had he only been the latter, I, as an ex Apprentice would likely have nothing to do with him...... I contend that Religious Education should be given in schools but only on a voluntary learning basis. My reasons for raising this issue are various but the major concern is the spread of Islam througout this country. A religion which, if followed by true believers is of little danger to anyone but when used a weapon, as it mostly seems to be, these days, becomes one of the greatest threats to mankind in the past 2000years or so. The teaching of Islam is becoming forcibly imposed by claim of discrimination on any school that is too weak to oppose it. My premise, however, is that no form of R.E. should be mandatory in schools. What is your view? Last edited by Mike Pass
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Poet – 24 November 2011 09:41
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Originally Posted by
Michael I have always rspected the views of all religions and non-religious people too. I believe school curiculums are based across the field to give children a broad insight to the world they will live in and to give them a deeper understanding of the outside world. However If the option of Religious Instruction were taken from that mode of teaching because some children feel they dont benefit then it might well set a precedent in other subjects as well. Surely schooling is a method to test and open the mind to a wider spectrum and give the scholar a chance to make their choice when adult. Only my opinion of course
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Mike Pass 24 November 2011 10:28
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Originally Posted by
Hhmmm!!!!

I do not think there would be a knock on effect, Dennis. I have attended schools where there was no R.E. and they did not appear to suffer for it. Had there been no Maths, English or Science then there would be been serious shortfalls. Domestic Science was an option at one of my schools. The girls all signed up (remember this was the 50s/60s!) Few boys did. In retrospect, I feel that this subject should have been mandatory!! Many schools and colleges these days have a plethora of optionals. I feel that this is what R.E. is....an option, not a necessity. I think many would be surprised at the amount of pupils who would be more inclined to take it up, were it voluntary.
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Murray Whyte 24 November 2011 10:47
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Originally Posted by
I think it is important for children to understand other cultures and religious beliefs. However, this should not be a catalyst for the schools to force it upon the pupils. It should be left up to the young people to decide.
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Veni, Vermini, Vomui 24 November 2011 11:09
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Originally Posted by
Drop it!

It seems to me that a number of traditions and beliefs have been "dropped" from schools using the mantra of "children should not be forced". Among those dropped are Religious Instruction, the need for neat and tidy writing, the need to understand that it is possible for children (and adults) to lose at a sport or examination, morning assemblies, the singing of the national anthem, etc etc. I cannot help wondering if lack of instruction in some or all of these areas has resulted in the bad behaviour, bad language, lack of respect and so on, that we see in todays young, and in many instances, older people. Religion being the thread topic here, then just think of the ten commandments in the Christian religions. Surely it cannot be a bad thing to teach children those rules? I know that some will say that those commandments were intended only to get the chosen people to the promised land, whole, intact and not weakened. Notwithstanding that, the ten rules work in any civilized society, and in my not so humble opinion, would help children in particular to have at least some standards to use as guidance. Maybe RI in the form of the old time Sunday Schools would not go amiss in todays schooling, rather than forced, boring lectures given by adults who are not interested in the subject. Carl
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Veni, Vermini, Vomui 24 November 2011 11:16
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Originally Posted by
Nice idea Murray

Quoting: Murray Whyte .............. It should be left up to the young people to decide. but most young children, given the choice, would sooner be doing something that they liked. Children are not, as many would have us believe, informed enough to make a really sensible decision. Most, given a choice between Maths and football would opt for football, Eng Lit or Comics, Geography or free time......! Children need guidance in their early years, and sometimes that guidance should be in the form of mandatory learning rather than a "leave it up to them" approach. Carl
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Geordie 24 November 2011 11:22
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Originally Posted by
Should religion be compulsorily taught in schools?

Science without religion.....its like having night without day. Our entire society is divided over the "Theory of Evolution".......and we all know Science and History keep changing their stories when it suits. NO..... I m not religious.
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Mike Pass 24 November 2011 11:28
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Originally Posted by
Hhhmmm!!!!

Quoting: Carl Graffham Maybe RI in the form of the old time Sunday Schools would not go amiss in today's schooling, rather than forced, boring lectures given by adults who are not interested in the subject. Carl I was hoping that someone would bring this up. I totally agree with Sunday Schools (within the enclosure of the physical church). It was from this that I was able to eventually form my desire not to accept Religion per se. My parents sent me to Sunday School with the rider, listen to what the vicar has to say and when you feel old enough to decide for yourself, then it is your choice. I enjoyed Sunday School, as it goes (I did tell this story here a few years ago so I will not labour it) mainly due to the fact that our vicar was a missionary and the stories he told us about deepest, darkest Africa were legend. However, as time went on I started to question the tenets and truths that I was receiving. I read the Bible through twice during those years and once again at college. A goodly gap between, you may say. You would be correct. I wanted to see if my original findings still held water. For me, they did indeed. Hence my Athiesm. On the reverse of this coin. No one forces anyone to attend Sunday School these days and it did not happen very much when I was young. Therefore, I believe that this is the perfect way to receive R.E. given that the child then is allowed to form their own opinions and choose whether or not to maintain the church as their own or to adopt a secular lifestyle.
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Geordie 24 November 2011 11:46
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Mike Pass I was hoping that someone would bring this up. I totally agree with Sunday Schools (within the enclosure of the physical church). It was from this that I was able to eventually form my desire not to accept Religion per se. My parents sent me to Sunday School with the rider, 'listen to what the vicar has to say and when you feel old enough to decide for yourself, then it is your choice'. I enjoyed Sunday School, as it goes (I did tell this story here a few years ago so I will not labour it) mainly due to the fact that our vicar was a missionary and the stories he told us about deepest, darkest Africa were legend. However, as time went on I started to question the tenets and 'truths' that I was receiving. I read the Bible through twice during those years and once again at college. A goodly gap between, you may say. You would be correct. I wanted to see if my original findings still held water. For me, they did indeed. Hence my Athiesm. On the reverse of this coin. No one forces anyone to attend Sunday School these days and it did not happen very much when I was young. Therefore, I believe that this is the perfect way to receive R.E. given that the child then is allowed to form their own opinions and choose whether or not to maintain the church as their own or to adopt a secular lifestyle. I never went to Sunday school Mike, nor did many of the kids that I used to knock around with....in fact, there was only a handful out of the whole school I attended went to Sunday school. So if it wasnt taught in school, I would have known nothing about religion.
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Cave Adsum 24 November 2011 11:54
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Originally Posted by
Religion

Michael, what a contentious subject. Still, you are forgiven, after all, you were once an Apprentice and did not have the benefit of being a Boy Entrant. I was taught, like most of us I expect, at school, the subject of R.I. - Christianity by a teacher who was not really interested and did not know his subject. He was however, an excellent history teacher. We did learn that the unwritten constitution of Great Britain was based on the Ten Commandments and when we look at them, they are a good basis for ruling a country. Should religion be taught in schools? I think not. Let the children and adults who wish to know come to the church. We can and do teach Christianity. I do not stand in the pulpit and preach motot mechanics nor geography, leaving these and many more subjects to those who have a better understanding of them. As one of the chosen (a Boy Entrant), we were paraded and marched to Church on Sunday mornings, did it make any of us believers? For myself, I didnt get converted to Christianity until in my 30s. Forcing religion down peoples throats is not a good way of gaining converts. Jesus Christ told the disciples to: "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. . (Mark 16:15) He did not tell them to convert people. Here endeth the sermon.
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Mike Pass 24 November 2011 11:56
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Originally Posted by
Hhhmmmm

When you and I were young, Owen there were a great deal of Religious readables on sale and in libraries. Most people were religious to some level and parents were apt to give their children some kind of initiation into religious belief. I can accept that it is a very different scenario now! However, there are many outlets available to anyone who would wish to learn. I have never believed in the tell em nowt and therell be nowt to answer mentality of some. I do not want people to missunderstand my remit here. It is about the forced learning of a contentious subject as against the freedom to appreciate the subject voluntarily.
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John Raymond 24 November 2011 12:02
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Originally Posted by
religion

I was sent to Sunday School run by an extremely strict religion, the Brethren. I hated it, and couldnt wait until I was old enough to bid them goodbye. The only up side was that we could earn the occasional reward of a tanner for bible knowledge, so being skint I learned quickly!
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Steve Greenwood 24 November 2011 12:18
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Originally Posted by
I have never believed that Religious Education should be taught in State Schools as a compulsory subject. If parents want their children to be taught about their respective religions then they should either send them to an appropriate school such as a C of E or R.C. or whatever or send them to their respective places of worship to be taught by those who have a vested interest in R.E. I do know the arguments against, by the way!
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Geordie 24 November 2011 13:01
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Mike Pass When you and I were young, Owen there were a great deal of Religious readables on sale and in libraries. Most people were religious to some level and parents were apt to give their children some kind of initiation into religious belief. I can accept that it is a very different scenario now! However, there are many outlets available to anyone who would wish to learn. I have never believed in the 'tell 'em nowt and there'll be nowt to answer' mentality of some. I do not want people to missunderstand my remit here. It is about the 'forced' learning of a contentious subject as against the freedom to appreciate the subject voluntarily. In your earlier post, you said "My parents sent me to Sunday School" did you have a choice ? did you ask to go ? did your parents ask if you wanted to go ? or did they suggest that it was the right thing for you to go. ? My parents asked me if I wanted to go to Sunday school, which I then replied "NO". I had a choice and I certainly had no interest in religion what so ever at that time. Yes my parents bought me picture book Bibles etc, but then I thought !!! hey this is a good fairy tale..... to me it was just another one of my many fictional story books.....some of the pictures were better than those in some my science fiction books that I had. Compulsory religion !!! ....either by parents sending you to Sunday School without you having any say in the matter is the same as religion taught in school.
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Murray Whyte 24 November 2011 13:03
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Carl Graffham but most young children, given the choice, would sooner be doing something that they liked. Children are not, as many would have us believe, informed enough to make a really sensible decision.  Most, given a choice between Maths and football would opt for football, Eng Lit or Comics, Geography or free time......! Children need guidance in their early years, and sometimes that guidance should be in the form of mandatory learning rather than a "leave it up to them" approach. Carl Up here in the darkest depths of the Kingdom, our High Schools do not teach RI.  They teach, from the School site: Religious Moral and Philosophical Studies 'The Unexamined Life is not Worth Living' (Socrates 469 - 399BC) Here in High School we agree with what Socrates said all these years ago. In RMPS we focus on questions of meaning, value and purpose in life. RMPS is concerned with examining the responses humankind has made to these difficult questions. We look to the major religions, belief systems and famous thinkers, religious and non-religious, for inspiration. Our aim is to develop an awareness of the ways in which beliefs and values are central to the fabric of Scottish society. From this focus we try to help our students sort out their own beliefs, values and priorities. The RMPS department is working hard to produce informed, articulate, open-minded and tolerant students who are able to empathise with those who are different from themselves and who are also able to reflect upon their own experience of life. All students attend classes in this subject for one period per week in S1-S4 Students in Middle School and Senior School have the opportunity to study RMPS and/or Philosophy at Higher or Intermediate1/ 2 level.   In addition, as part of the Learning Toolkit, S1 students attend an eight- week block in Philosophy for Children (P4C). In our lessons we try to make our learning and teaching vibrant yet grounded in our students' own life experience. To this end ·         students are asked to speak about their views and values and be willing to discuss them openly. ·         we invite as many visitors and speakers as possible to the department so that students have the opportunity to learn first hand from members of our community and beyond. ·         ICT is used as appropriate so that students can gain knowledge and understanding from a multiplicity of sources. ·         Art and Drama are employed to help students explore new ideas/concepts We see our students' experience in the classroom as 'learning for life'. We hope that the skills of asking questions and reflective/critical thinking will become a habit that will remain with them long after they have left school. The courses are based on the core values below and in line with Curriculum for Excellence JUSTICE   WISDOM    COMPASSION   INTEGRITY Last edited by Murray Whyte
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Mike Pass 24 November 2011 13:12
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Originally Posted by
Hhhmmm!!!!

Quoting: Owen Hunter In your earlier post, you said "My parents sent me to Sunday School" did you have a choice ? did you ask to go ? did your parents ask if you wanted to go ? or did they suggest that it was the right thing for you to go. ?   'Sent' is probably a strong word, looking back. More a case of 'Try Sunday School and see where it goes' perhaps. There was certainly no compulsion and I doubt that I would have been beaten to within an inch of my life if I had said no! Last edited by Mike Pass
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Mike Pass 24 November 2011 13:15
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Originally Posted by
Hhmmm!!!!

Ye Gods, Murray! I thought you were only taught about porridge up there!
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Geordie 24 November 2011 13:27
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Mike Pass 'Sent' is probably a strong word, looking back. More a case of 'Try Sunday School and see where it goes' perhaps. There was certainly no compulsion and I doubt that I would have been beaten to within an inch of my life if I had said no! Last edited by Mike Pass I must have misinterpreted your post Mike...... It was just where you parents said " and when you feel old enough to decide for yourself, then it is your choice'." "Then it is your choice" !!!
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John (Scouse) Hirons 24 November 2011 13:31
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Originally Posted by
I, as a few will know, am an atheist but here comes the surprise I think RE should be a mandatory subject & as C of E is the state religion thats the one that should should be taught. The only way kids can make up their minds about religion is to know something about it, Cathlics, Muslims, Hindus ect get religion pounded into them from an early age protestantism is not.
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Who Does Guard The Guardians?? 24 November 2011 16:26
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Originally Posted by
For what its worth, I was forced to attend the local Methodist Chapel until I rebelled at 13, nothing unusual for my mother to give me a pasting, purely as encouragement, all my cousins on my mothers side also went to Methodist Chapel, the one my mother attended as a child is in the Black Country Museum. Also had RI at school, so was reasonably versed in the ways of the Lord. I firmly believe that the bible is a yardstick by which people should try to live their lives. The ten commandments are a good example. But that is my total commitment to the Holy Scriptures, the rest I think is wistful thinking. Yes, I believe children should be taught RI at school, as has been pointed out by another poster, when they reach an age where they can make a considered choice, then they make their decision, but it would be an educated decision. When I went into the forces, on my dog-tags was stamped METH, my mother asked me what it meant, I said if I die in the army, they will have a Methodist Minister read the sermon, "Thats no good" she replied, "You were christened Church of England, nice one Ma! Whether children accept religion after their education finishes is a matter of choice, but at least they will have knowledge. education on any subject, stretches the mind, which can only be a good thing. Given choices at too young an age they will always opt for their favourite
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Nobby 24 November 2011 19:36
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Originally Posted by
It has crossed my mind, albeit briefly, that Im not at all sure where this thread is going, but here we, in like Flint! I never went to Sunday school. I went once but gave up when I realised the rumoured free food was a myth. I heard the same about the Jacobites, and the Sallies, and joined both for the alleged benefits, which again turned out to be rumour, so I quickly confined them to the mounting rubbish bin of the religious. We had brief periods of what was euphemistically referred to as RI at school, and sang a hymn every day at the end of the day: "Now the day is over" which I could probably recall verbatim if I sat down and thought about it. So , no I dont qualify as being a school-inculcated religious person. Thats not to say I dont think it should be taught, otherwise everyone in the UK will become Muslim a lot faster than you think, because that religion has no qualms whatsoever about brain-washing kids. In this country, political correctness has not gone that mad, and Christmas is still Christmas, and not Winterlude or whatever daft suggestion was made in the UK. It seems that, in NZ at least, there is a public yearning for the teaching of Judeo-Christian principles. Each school board decides whether it offers the service, while parents have the right to remove their children from classes. The curriculum is specifically designed for the secular classroom and is child-focused rather than teacher-driven and it doesnt tolerate biblical extremists. So what do they teach? It's not fire and brimstone, it's about values: honesty, compassion and so on., and that cant be a bad thing!
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Aj 24 November 2011 20:20
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Originally Posted by
Re Religon

Quoting: Colin Hall It has crossed my mind, albeit briefly, that I'm not at all sure where this thread is going, but here we, in like Flint! I never went to Sunday school. I went once but gave up when I realised the rumoured free food was a myth. I heard the same about the Jacobites, and the Sallies, and joined both for the alleged benefits, which again turned out to be rumour, so I quickly confined them to the mounting rubbish bin of the religious. We had brief periods of what was euphemistically referred to as RI at school, and sang a hymn every day at the end of the day: "Now the day is over" which I could probably recall verbatim if I sat down and thought about it. So , no I don't qualify as being a school-inculcated religious person. That's not to say I don't think it should be taught, otherwise everyone in the UK will become Muslim a lot faster than you think, because that religion has no qualms whatsoever about brain-washing kids. In this country, political correctness has not gone that mad, and Christmas is still Christmas, and not Winterlude or whatever daft suggestion was made in the UK. It seems that, in NZ at least, there is a public yearning for the teaching of Judeo-Christian principles. Each  school board decides whether it offers the service, while parents have the right to remove their children from classes. The curriculum is specifically designed for the secular classroom and is child-focused rather than teacher-driven and it doesn't   tolerate biblical extremists.   So what do they teach? It's not fire and brimstone, it's about values: honesty, compassion and so on., and that can't be a bad thing! When i was a young kid in the later days of the war i stayed in Wales with my old aunties and they gave me no options as far as gojng to church was concerned. It was Penticostals in the morning and the salvation army after lunch then the Methodist chaple in the evening. and at about 15 i found better thing to do. Some 59 years later our young (28) daughter in law died. And that got me back in the church. And i now spend two to three days a week in the community care side of the church looking after people in need. And there are a lot of them about. So it is not all singing and saying prayers there is a lot more goes on in a church than you may think. Please do not take what i have said the wrong way everybody has there own views and this is mine Andrew Jones
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Mike Pass 24 November 2011 20:39
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Originally Posted by
Hhhmmm!!!!

I can understand why Colin was confused as to where the thread was going. This is due to the continuing habit here.....not referring to the topic. The thread is not about Religion per se, neither is it about peoples religious beliefs or practices. It is about whether or not posters feel that the practice of Religious Education in schools is right and proper. Or, should it be done away with on the grounds of curriculum irrelevance. I would take to opportunity to remind members to check the originating post of any thread which has a serious discussion title in order to avoid confusion. The only pertinent diversion here is the subject of Sunday Schools.
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Who Does Guard The Guardians?? 24 November 2011 20:54
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Originally Posted by
Quoting Mike Pass, It is about whether or not posters feel that the practice of Religious Education in schools is right and proper. ........................... Short answer, yes!
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Spud 24 November 2011 21:02
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Originally Posted by
Compulsorily available, to the students and parents wishes. Emphasis on available.
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Roly01 24 November 2011 22:32
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Originally Posted by
Another short and to the point answer. Yes it should be taught in school but by properly trained RE Teachers or priests of that faith that the class is dealing with. Religion should not be rammed down the throat of Children!
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Mike Pass 25 November 2011 07:32
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Originally Posted by
Hhhmmm!!!!

OK, then. A fair cross section of our small posting membership. Many thanks for your views, gentlemen. Interesting that the ladies were not involved. It would seem that the general view amongst the elder members, which I sit on the fringe of, of course, holds to the principles that were instilled in the 1940s/50s and I respect that. It would have been interesting if we had been able to hear from a later generation but you cant have everything. Please feel free to deviate at the drop of a hat from this point.
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John (Scouse) Hirons 25 November 2011 14:34
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Mike Pass OK, then. A fair cross section of our small posting membership. Many thanks for your views, gentlemen. Interesting that the ladies were not involved. It would seem that the general view amongst the elder members, which I sit on the fringe of, of course, holds to the principles that were instilled in the 1940s/50s and I respect that. It would have been interesting if we had been able to hear from a later generation but you can't have everything. Please feel free to deviate at the drop of a hat from this point. Alright Mike, ang on pal...are you saying Im a deviant eh eh? Errrmmm errrmmm on second thoughts you could be right so I wont post anything, as the RC priest said "suffer little chilren to come over me" or something like that.
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Syd Jones 25 November 2011 17:30
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Originally Posted by
Should religion be compulsorily taught in schools

Without diverting too much I hope. A gentle sort of Christianity. Yes, most certainly. Doctrinaire ideology, or bigotry? No. Islam, as we hear of it. In our schools? Absolutely not! Cheers, Syd.
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Terry Carey 25 November 2011 18:46
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Originally Posted by
Should religion etc

In my day the situation was different in that with maybe the exception being Jewish faith schools most other schools were State Schools and the State religion was that of the C of E. We had morning prayers in which everybody had to join, Catholic, Methodist or what have you notwithstanding we were all there with our hands clasped. I remember little of what we were taught except the most violent episodes, Crucifixion, slaughter of the infants by Herod, slaying of Goliath and so on. In fact little of the peace which we are told goes with that religion. That aspect was dealt with in passing even at Church although Sunday School was more in line with that side of the Bible. Back to the teaching or religion in schools. I feel that it is a good thing to have some education along the lines, as has been said, of the Ten Commandments. They are practical, practicable and basic standards for life among our fellow humans. That is about as far as it should go for me. The teaching of Islam is a definite No-No and any form of religion whereby the young are brainwashed is also out. In this Judaism and some forms of Catholicism are almost as bad as the Muslim lot. If we were to say that what should be taught is that some people believe in a God or Gods; that all are valid to others if not ourselves and that we should be tolerant to them and expect tolerance back; that some people do not believe in any form of religion and that their views should also be tolerated and accepted; that there is no excuse for killing anyone else for a different set of values and lastly that we are not bound by what our parents believe but are simply being given a set of values by which to live until we are old enough to judge for ourselves then I would say Yes. Terry.
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Mike Pass 26 November 2011 07:45
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Originally Posted by
Hhhmm!!!!

Theres allus them wot turns up laert, ay it?????!!!!
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Aj 26 November 2011 10:54
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Originally Posted by
Should religon be compulsoirly taught in schools

Firstly Mike sorry if i went beyond your subject of religon taught in schools. I should have read the begining of the lesson first. However i was not forced into these classes nor anybody else to my knowledge, And again i have not met anybody harmed either. By being taught in schools it does allow to either except this or ignore it. And to give the children a choice to go to these classes or not would start those little minds thinking. What about maths, english, history and other subjects.
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Bomber 26 November 2011 10:55
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Originally Posted by
I was made to go to Sunday School in 1932, I along with other youngsters were given a little blue book and when you went to Sunday School during the morning and the afternoon a little black star was printed in it. If you turned up at home with no star you were given a belting, no pocket money (which was 3d). If you had a full book of stars you were allowed to go to the bun fight in September. And then later on in life into the RAF where church parade was compulsory, I got completely pissed off with church and their collections, beggars in the street were locked up when I was young but I didnt see any of the clergy locked up, they were always begging and still are. Church for me is a dirty word. I have told my wife that I dont want anyone praying over me when I expire, they only know what they have been told by next of kin but you would think that they knew them personally when you hear them speak.
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Aj 26 November 2011 11:06
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Originally Posted by
I would comment on your post Ray. However i would be going of the subject of the main post and be given the cane from Mr Pass. ha ha
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Aj 26 November 2011 11:11
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Originally Posted by
On reflection what the heck. Marching to church on a Sunday morning was great as far as i was concerned. I was not marching around on a parade ground with a rifle on my shoulders.
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Aj 26 November 2011 11:23
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Originally Posted by
Another comment

When i was stationed in Harwich in movement control And our job at that time was to look after troops returning from Germany via the Hook of Holland. and most of those boats were ex German flat bottom boats. i came agross quite a lot of Army and Air Force personel who had religon. Because they kept saying the same thing. Thank God We of That Ship
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Bomber 26 November 2011 11:29
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Originally Posted by
Dont worry Andrew, Mike has taken the nail out of the stick.
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Mike Pass 26 November 2011 11:30
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Originally Posted by
Hhhmmm!!!!

Quoting: Andrew Jones I would comment on your post Ray. However i would be going of the subject of the main post and be given the cane from Mr Pass. ha ha No longer a concern Andrew. I got what I was looking for from the thread and made the note that if folk wanted to deviate......be my guest. Its a bit tongue in cheek anyway!
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Veni, Vermini, Vomui 26 November 2011 16:03
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Originally Posted by
Small world, smaller thanks to FR....

Quoting: Andrew Jones When i was stationed in Harwich in movement control And our job at that time was to look after troops returning from Germany via the Hook of Holland. and most of those boats were ex German flat bottom boats. i came agross quite a lot of  Army and Air Force personel who had religon. Because they kept saying the same thing.  Thank God We of That Ship How strange this site is....1955 - 1957 I spent a lot of time at Liverpool Street Station, London, RTO, meeting those troops you assisted as they came into London. Of course I also helped thousands more on the way to you en route Germany. I probably never met you, but did work alongside Army RTO personal at Liverpool Street. Completely off topic, but I dunno, God moves in mysterious ways, innit. Carl Happy Days
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Mike Pass 27 November 2011 13:51
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Originally Posted by
hhhmmm!!!!

Innit though!
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Geordie 14 December 2011 17:43
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Originally Posted by
I dont think it makes much difference myself whether religion is taught in schools or not. In my day I was so badly behaved the R.I. instructor made me learn and recite bible verses because I wouldnt do as I was told and I wasnt really that naughty, he just a strict ex R.A.F. RI. teacher My husband wouldnt get married in or go anywhere near a church (he was an atheist) He wouldnt have the children christened or have anything to do with church or religion. That didnt stop God working (are God, faith and religion the same, I dont think so!). My daughters both became Christians in their teens before I did at 44 years of age. As some on this site may remember I am a Local Preacher now in the Methodist church and there are so many misconceptions about faith and God! Thank goodness for Rev Perry Never mistake teaching religion for teaching about God! May you all have a joyous, peaceful and healthy Christ-Mass.
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Mike Pass 14 December 2011 18:53
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Originally Posted by
Hhhmmm!!!!!

Yes, Jean, we remember who you are and what you are and I will give you one warning only. Start the Evangelistic crap again and I shall report every post in which you include it. If you want to preach to the uninterested congregation yet again, open a thread purely for that purpose and you will have my guarantee that I will go nowhere near it. The feeling regarding your posting manner before, has not changed here. For the benefit of new/ish members....the above may seem very unfair and unwarranted given that Jean has not posted here for over a year. Do a little research before condemning my words. Trust me, I do know what I am talking about!
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Hells Last Issue 14 December 2011 19:11
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Originally Posted by
Teaching religion?

Quoting: Jean Law-Millie       I don't think it makes much difference myself whether religion is taught in schools or not. In my day I was so badly behaved the R.I. instructor made me learn and recite bible verses because I wouldn't do as I was told and I wasn't really that naughty, he just a strict ex R.A.F. RI. teacher My husband wouldn't get married in or go anywhere near a church (he was an atheist) He wouldn't have the children christened or have anything to do with church or religion. That didn't stop God working (are God, faith and religion the same, I don't think so!). My daughters both became Christians in their teens before I did at 44 years of age. As some on this site may remember I am a Local Preacher now in the Methodist church and there are so many misconceptions about faith and God! Thank goodness for Rev Perry Never mistake teaching religion for teaching about God! May you all have a joyous, peaceful and healthy Christ-Mass.   Before we think of religion asa subject for ther teaching of in schools lets look at the history of it,especially Christian beliefs.The idea BEHIND RELIGION WAS TO PROMOTE PEACE HOWEVER IT WAS QUICKLY MONOPOLISED BY THE SO CALLED GOOD CHURCH . This then lent itself to the control of the little man by the great lords who could use it as a tool to keep the flock under control. Later it was used by the robber Knights who charged through Europe and the middle East raping and slaughtering as they went sanctioned by the pope and the religios bigots and in the end they couldn`t keep palestine anyway. In our recent history the so called church has managed to be more involved in the stock and money markets and political debates than it has in the saving of souls and promotion of peace and of course there is the ongoing scandal within the various christian churches over the abuse of children in the care of the church,so before the teaching of the young minds of our children begins I think the church needs to remind itself of what it was and who it was that brought about the establishment of it as a centre of peace and belief,Oh! by the way I am a practicing Presbyterian. Last edited by Murray Whyte
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Nobby 14 December 2011 19:13
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Originally Posted by
Oh, I dunno Mike, Jean had an influence on me...Im even less [were that possible] religious than I ever was!
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Mike Pass 14 December 2011 20:10
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Originally Posted by
Hhhmmm!!!!

Glad something positive came out of it then, Colonel!!!
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Pamela Forbes 15 December 2011 00:56
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Mike Pass Yes, Jean, we remember who you are and what you are and I will give you one warning only. Start the Evangelistic crap again and I shall report every post in which you include it. If you want to preach to the uninterested congregation yet again, open a thread purely for that purpose and you will have my guarantee that I will go nowhere near it. The feeling regarding your posting manner before, has not changed here. For the benefit of new/ish members....the above may seem very unfair and unwarranted given that Jean has not posted here for over a year. Do a little research before condemning my words. Trust me, I do know what I am talking about! I wouldnt call it unfair and unwarranted, Mike. I would rather call it rude and unnecessary. Jean is just as entitled to express an opinion as anyone else who pays their subscriptions on FR. I have noticed on more than one occasion that when someone has objected to something you have said both Colin and yourself have suggested that if they dont like your views then they shouldnt bother to read them. Perhaps you should remember your own advice? One session of abusive postings has only just been put to rest. PLEASE dont let another bout of nastiness start.
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Nobby 15 December 2011 01:12
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Originally Posted by
Quoting: Pamela Forbes    I wouldn't call it unfair and unwarranted, Mike.  I would rather call it rude and unnecessary.     Jean is just as entitled to express an opinion as anyone else who pays their subscriptions on FR.  I have noticed on more than one occasion that when someone has objected to something you have said both Colin and yourself have suggested that if they don't  like your views then they shouldn't bother to read them.    Perhaps you should remember your own advice?    One session of abusive postings has only just been put to rest.   PLEASE  don't let another bout of nastiness start. I've never said I objected to anyone's view on anything I post, but if I don't agree with them then I usually say so. It's that simple. There are a number of threads that I have rarely looked at, so it should be too difficult for anyone to do the same. You are correct, Jean can post what she wishes, but from what I recall [I was absent from this site for a lot of it] she could be pretty polarising in her views! I'm sure Mike doesn't agree with me all the time, and vice versa, but we have a mutual and tacit agreement to agree to differ! It is possible to do that! Last edited by Colin Hall
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Sit Vis Nobiscum. 15 December 2011 07:32
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Originally Posted by
More to the point, teach "about" religion in schools. Do away with faith schools all they do is polarise opinion. I dont have a problem with people who want to be or are religious, just dont ram it down those who do not want it. I did have a discussion with a Jehovas witness who said that my mind was closed to his arguement, I pointed out that Im here to be convinced, and his mind is closed to any but his own belief. So I will remain an athiest, not an agnostic, until somebody convinves me that there is a deity that is not mythical, and borne out of superstition. Bare in mind that whilst trying to convince me that Jews, Christians & Muslims all allegedly worship the same God
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Mike Pass 15 December 2011 07:42
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Originally Posted by
hhhmmm!!!

Quite so and whilst I happily accept Jean's right to her 'opinion' I would ask members, those that were here during her last tenure as site Evangelist, to recall some of what was churned out against all common sense by the lady. I will not regurgitate it Pamela but the main thrust was that, whilst Jean was on cloud nine spouting her (to a good number of us...)distasteful rhetoric, she gave no time to the consideration of the beliefs or non beliefs, if you will of others. She was more than happy to spout endless religious pap but would NEVER answer any question or challenge put to her on the subject. I note that she even managed to alienate firm religious members! I have no problem with members finding my post rude. I believe that it can be seen that way. However, if that is what it takes to dissuade the lady from picking up where she left off then, sorry but it works for me. I also have an issue with the use of Roger Perry's name in her post. 'In all innocence' she may say! I think not. Roger Perry is a genuine man of God who does not roam around the ongoing threads looking to convert all and sundry. He keeps his views and beliefs to the threads that he sets up for the purpose of discussing religion in the way that he chooses to do so and is more than happy to enter into friendly and INTELLIGENT discussion with those of us who hold opposing views. To use his name in this opening gambit, I find 'unwarranted'. It may be noted that I started this thread and whilst I obviously have no desire to control the use of it I find it rather unwise of Jean to dip straight into into it on her return without giving due consideration to the problems caused by her posting previously! That is my case, Pamela. I was here before, with this farago and am not about to endure it again. As I said, should Jean open a religious thread, good luck to her and I will stay well away. That is the kindest action that I have to offer. Apologies to any and all who are upset by my views on this. Last edited by Mike Pass
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Mike Pass 15 December 2011 07:50
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Originally Posted by
Hhhmmm!!!!

Quoting: Pamela Forbes    I have noticed on more than one occasion that when someone has objected to something you have said both Colin and yourself have suggested that if they don't  like your views then they shouldn't bother to read them. Just as a side issue, Pamela. I am sorry but that is not my style at all. I can think of several that it does belong to but if you wish to criticise me, I would be grateful for something valid. No offence but you are somewhat off piste with that statement.
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